A Song at SATS

[UZThD]

A newsletter received today from the South African Theological Seminary announces the presently available opportunity to do doctoral research at SATS by distance education. Further Prof Arthur Song of Unizul will head that new SATS graduate studies department.

It is my understanding that Song is truly qualified , that degrees earned at SATS are truly accredited, and that tuition at SATS is truly cheap (by Western standards).

Hence there now is truly made available yet another opportunity, to add to the several already existing options, to do inexpensive distance learning graduate studies in a respectable manner instead of doing them at schools which require slender amounts of rigor.

(Song, BTW, is a Baptist!)

I hope some might take advantage of this and add rigorous strength to the voice of higher Christian ed and scholarship instead of adding to the death rattle of it.

 

[Broadus]

Bill,

Thanks for the post. I hope folks will take advantage of this opportunity.

Bill

 

[paidagogos]

Originally posted by UZThD:
A newsletter received today from the South African Theological Seminary announces the presently available opportunity to do doctoral research at SATS by distance education. Further Prof Arthur Song of Unizul will head that new SATS graduate studies department.

It is my understanding that Song is truly qualified , that degrees earned at SATS are truly accredited, and that tuition at SATS is truly cheap (by Western standards).

Hence there now is truly made available yet another opportunity, to add to the several already existing options, to do inexpensive distance learning graduate studies in a respectable manner instead of doing them at schools which require slender amounts of rigor.

(Song, BTW, is a Baptist!)

I hope some might take advantage of this and add rigorous strength to the voice of higher Christian ed and scholarship instead of adding to the death rattle of it.

I really like SA DE--UNISA, UNIZUL, and SATS. Their degrees are absolutely respectable in any circles. The prices are right. A lot of the American DE schools (e.g. University of Phoenix) are ripoffs.

 

[UZThD]

Bill--you are very welcome.

Paidagogos--I appreciate you saying that.


Bill

 

[Coker]

I contacted Leschenne Honiball, Registrar, at SATS for information concerning the Doctoral Program. She wrote back immediately and informed me that SATS is applying for accrediation of the DTh program in April 2005. The program fields will be:

Practical Theology
Pastoral Counseling
Systematic Theology
Old Testament
New Testament
Biblical Studies

The requirement is a 220 to 240 page thesis and a Master of Theology or equivalent is the pre-requisite for the program.

They are still working on the fee structure, but if it is comparable to the Graduate Degrees then it will be very affordable in accordance with standards in the United States.

They are currently accepting applications for the program in anticipation of accreditation approval.

Can anyone give me more information on SATS and the reputation of their degrees with institutions in the United States? Are their accrediting agencies recognized by colleges, universities, and seminaries in the United States? Any information would be welcome. I am very interested in this program.

 

[UZThD]

Coker

I have completed the dissertation (they say "thesis) with Unizul which is a "big brother" of SATs in that: (1) for years Unizul accredited SATs before SATS ventured out on its own, (2) several SATS profs are Unizul grads, and (3) as now Song, former Dean at Unizul will be working with SATS.

There may be factors which limit utility of the SATS doc in the USA:

(1) It can be done, as can the SATS masters, entirely by dissertation. In contrast USA sort of docs in Theology require coursework plus dissertation. Some in academe may consider that too narrow or slight in substance.

(2) The SATS D.Th (ThD) will be wholly by distance education. While distance learning is now common in the USA, NO USA accredited (ie, REAlly ACCREDITED) seminary gives a PhD/ThD by distance learning only--although some require only modest residencies. But as the SATS is entirely by distance that might be frowned upon in some circles of academe.

(3) When considering "foreign" docs, South African degrees may not be as well received as, say European degrees. Nevertheless, some scholars recently have taken SA docs. For example, Philip W. Comfort, Prof of Greek and NT at Trinity Episcopal and author of The Text of The earliest NT Greek MSS, has his D. Litt. et Phil. from Unisa (along with his PhD from Fairfax). Lioy who last year presented a paper to the NW ETS and who for years taught at TTS of Newburgh after his ThM from DTS took a SA doc. Also, did Walston who wrote the Guide to Christian DL degrees. I'm sure there are many others.

4) I have heard rumors that SATS tends to be Pentecostal in outlook, if that may be considered a drawback.

5) While I hate to be critical of Unizul or SATS, the 'master of Theology' , the prereq for entering the ThD there, is NOT the USA sort of four year ThM. It rather is a one or two year masters! [in my case I completed work in USA schools for MA, MDiv, ThM],IMO that may be slender preparation to do doctoral work in any area of Theology , save in, perhaps, praxes where one may more likely base research on experience too.

.........

On the otherhand,

(1) A SATS doc should be IMO accepted by USA schools as RA equivalent since SATS is GAAP,as it is approved by the proper South African agency. This alone, in my estimation, puts the SATS program heads and shoulders above the vast majority of unaccredited (as in REALLY accredited) US doc programs in Theology.

(2) Song who will supervise SATS grad School is indeed a well respected scholar and gentleman!

(3) That "South African" doc research can equal USA doc research is IMO indicated by an informal Reader of my dissertation, a prof of NT at a RA school, a PhD grad of Dallas Seminary, who opined that my dissertation was the equivalent of what DTS might expect.

I don't know what SATS will charge , but my Unizul doc, wholly done by DL, by research, cost less than $3000, and Unizul is a public SA university with a fine campus and 7000 students in residence.

 

[Coker]

UZThD

Thank you for the information. It is very insightful. I have friends that have received their ThD's from the University of South Africa and they are teaching at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, and Liberty University.

In your opinion, would a ThD from SATS be comparable?

I do appreciate your time and insight!

 

[UZThD]

Originally posted by Coker:
[QB] UZThD


In your opinion, would a ThD from SATS be comparable?


===


Hmmmmmmm...comparable in what way?

While I am no expert , not being a seminary prof, [but soon to be ,I think, an occasional lecturer in Christology] if you mean comparable in *utility*, and by that I mean in obtaining a faculty position, then a SATS doc in general would possibly not have the utility of a Unisa doc. The reason might be that Unisa is much better known whereas SATS is just begun.

However, the quality of a research doc is somewhat relative , I think, to the quality of supervision of the doc research, and , as said, Arthur Song is very experienced, accomplished, and known in the area of Pastoral Theology and Comparative Religions.

Also I think that it often is the case that where one has done predoc study, one's "connections", and one's contribution to the knowledge in a field as in articles in scholarly journals or presentations to societies or even pastoral experience may be significant factors in one's employability as a faculty member.

If by comparable on the other hand you mean in *rigor*, then I cannot imagine Song allowing shoddy effort to pass. So in that regard IMO SATS likely would be comparable. A university's reputation may not assure the quality of the research produced.

Let me illustrate: I am an avid member of the forum degreeinfo.com. About a year ago there the PhD dissertation of a well known Christian writer from a well known (NOT Unizul) SA public university was evaluated. The dissertation then, not now, was available on the web.

A pal of mine, a grad of DTS, and I opined that the dissertation was wanting because it supposedly was in NT, but it did not exegete from the Greek and used SS type of resources not scholarly ones. The dissertation was shown to a prof of NT in an USA RA school who found it highly deficit! Nevertheless it passed!!! The PhD was awarded!!!

Now IMO any SATS dissertation Song has any contact with will excell that one in quality.

The repute of a school ,IMO , does not always assure quality of a dissertation. That also requires the diligence of the student.

IMO higher Christian ed should mainly be to learn-not just to get degrees. We are with our whole mind love our God--not our degrees. The degree is just a small part of it all.

Still, in my case, I wanted a small group of highly trained experts, my doc committee, in my field to concur that my effort to define the relationship of the immanent and incarnate Son to the Father was accomplished at a genuine doc level. Were it not, then I would have felt that I had failed God since I was writing for the very academic American Evangelical in his terms, his issues, and methods of research and argument.


As the dissertation passed (after corrections) a degree follows, but the important thing was that God be honored in the way I felt led to honor Him!

[ January 15, 2005, 03:31 PM: Message edited by: UZThD ]

 

[Coker]

UZThD

Again, thank you for your input and points well made. May God bless you as you continue to serve Him.