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A Traitor is Honored

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by Harrill, Jan 2, 2007.

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  1. Harrill

    Harrill New Member

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    > > A TRAITOR IS ABOUT TO BE HONORED
    > > KEEP THIS MOVING ACROSS
    > > AMERICA
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > This is for all the kids born in the 70's who do
    > > not remember, and didn't have to bear the
    > > burden that our fathers, mothers and older
    > > brothers and sisters had to bear.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Jane Fonda is being honored as one of the
    > > "100 Women of the Century."
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > BY BARBRA WALTERS
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Unfortunately, many have forgotten and still
    > > countless others have never known how Ms.
    > > Fonda betrayed not only the idea of our country,
    > > but specific men who served and sacrificed
    > > during Vietnam.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > The first part of this is from an F-4E pilot
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > The pilot's name is Jerry Driscoll, a River Rat.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > In 1968, the former Commandant of the USAF
    > > Survival School was a POW in Ho Lo Prison
    > > the "Hanoi Hilton."
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Dragged from a stinking cesspit of a cell,
    > > cleaned, fed, and dressed in clean PJ's, he was
    > > ordered to describe for a visiting American
    > > "Peace Activist" the "lenient and humane
    > > treatment" he'd received.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > He spat at Ms. Fonda, was clubbed, and was
    > > dragged away.
    > > During the subsequent beating, he fell forward
    > > on to the camp Commandant's feet, which
    > > sent that officer berserk.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > In 1978, the Air Force Colonel still suffered
    from
    > > double vision (which permanently ended his
    > > flying career) from the Commandant's frenzied
    > > application of a wooden baton.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > From 1963-65, Col. Larry Carrigan was in the
    > > 47FW/DO (F-4E's). He spent 6 years in the
    > > "Hanoi Hilton",,, the first three of which his
    > > family only knew he was "missing in action".
    > > His wife lived on faith that he was still alive.
    > > His group, too, got the cleaned-up, fed and
    > > clothed routine in preparation for a
    > > "peace delegation" visit.
    > > They, however, had time and devised a plan to
    > > get word to the world that they were alive
    > > and still survived. Each man secreted a tiny
    > > piece of paper, with his Social Security Number
    > > on it, in the palm of his hand.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > When paraded before Ms. Fonda and a
    > > cameraman, she walked the line, shaking each
    > > man's hand and asking little encouraging
    > > snippets like: "Aren't you sorry you bombed
    > > babies?" and "Are you grateful for the humane
    > > treatment from your benevolent captors?"
    > > Believing this HAD to be an act, they each
    > > palmed her their sliver of paper.
    > > She took them all without missing a beat. At
    the
    > > end of the line and once the camera stopped
    > > rolling, to the shocked disbelief of the POWs,
    > > she turned to the officer in charge and handed
    > > him all the little pieces of paper.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Three men died from the subsequent beatings.
    > > Colonel Carrigan was almost number four
    > > but he survived, which is the only reason we
    > > know of her actions that day.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > I was a civilian economic development advisor
    > > in Vietnam, and was captured by the North
    > > Vietnamese communists in South Vietnam in
    > > 1968, and held prisoner for over 5 years.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > I spent 27 months in solitary confinement; one
    > > year in a cage in Cambodia; and one year
    > > in a "black box" in Hanoi.
    > > My North Vietnamese captors deliberately
    > > poisoned and murdered a female missionary, a
    > > nurse in a leprosarium in Ban me Thuot, South
    > > Vietnam, whom I buried in the jungle near the
    > > Cambodian border.
    > > At one time, I weighed only ab out 90 lbs.
    > > (My normal weight is 170 lbs.)
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > We were Jane Fonda's "war criminals."
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > When Jane Fonda was in Hanoi, I was asked by
    > > the camp communist political officer if I would
    > > be willing to meet with her.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > I said yes, for I wanted to tell her about the
    real
    > > treatment we POWs received... and how
    > > different it was from the treatment purported by
    > > the North Vietnamese, and parroted by her as
    > > "humane and lenient."
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Because of this, I spent three days on a rocky
    > > floor on my knees, with my arms outstretched
    > > with a large steel weights placed on my hands,
    > > and beaten with a bamboo cane.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > I had the opportunity to meet with Jane Fonda
    > > soon after I was released. I asked her
    > > if she would be willing to debate me on TV.
    > > She never did answer me.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > These first-hand experiences do not exemplify
    > > someone who should be honored as part
    > > of "100 Years of Great Women."
    > > Lest we forget..." 100 Years of Great Women"
    > > should never include a traitor whose hands are
    > > covered with the blood of so many patriots.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > There are few things I have strong visceral
    > > reactions to, but Hanoi Jane's participation in
    > > blatant treason, is one of them.
    > > Please take the time to forward to as many
    > > people as you possibly can.
    > > It will eventually end up on her computer and
    > > she needs to know that we will never forget.
    > > RONALD D. SAMPSON, CMSgt, USAF
     
    #1 Harrill, Jan 2, 2007
  2. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles New Member

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    If you are going to post forwarded emails, how about at least getting rid of the forwards.
     
    #2 Magnetic Poles, Jan 2, 2007
  3. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    I hope that he can get rid of that evil name as well . . . a simple delete would be so kind to so many veterans that have worn the shame that she should be wearing.

     
    #3 El_Guero, Jan 2, 2007
  4. Baptist in Richmond

    Baptist in Richmond Active Member

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    On at least two occasions, I have heard Jane Fonda apologize for her actions. I have also heard her profess a faith in Christ.

    I think she should be forgiven, if she was sincere in her apology. It's time to heal.

    Regards,
    BiR
     
    #4 Baptist in Richmond, Jan 2, 2007
  5. Petra-O IX

    Petra-O IX Active Member

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    And that is the idea of forgiveness in the first place . Without forgiveness you're just going to be stuck in a rut all the while missing oppurtunities to move on and to do better thing with your life rather than to be overwhelmed by a lifetime of resentments.
     
    #5 Petra-O IX, Jan 2, 2007
  6. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    I have never heard her apologize. Since the gravity of her actions were so extreme, I personally would expect something more than mere lip service - a full page add in several major papers with full press coverage on all major news services . . . and then true contriteness.

    I know that there are many veterans that are still scarred by her actions.

     
    #6 El_Guero, Jan 2, 2007
  7. Not_hard_to_find

    Not_hard_to_find Member
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    Using out-dated, invalid, hate-filled forwarded e-mail at least gave people the opportunity to once again state that Jane Fonda publically proclaimed her belief in Jesus Christ as her Lord and Savior -- she just doesn't need to abuse that belief for personal attention.
     
    #7 Not_hard_to_find, Jan 2, 2007
  8. Baptist in Richmond

    Baptist in Richmond Active Member

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    So, simply asking forgiveness is not enough?
    Wow......

    Regards, Wayne,
    BiR
     
    #8 Baptist in Richmond, Jan 2, 2007
  9. The Galatian

    The Galatian Active Member

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    I'm not quite ready to forget, although if she's asked God for forgiveness, then I forgive her, too.

    You probably should know that the story about the slips of paper from the POWs is a lie, as is the story about a POW spitting on her and being beaten. This comes directly from the men said to have been involved:
    http://www.snopes.com/military/fonda.asp

    What she did is bad enough; there's no need to lie about what she did.
     
    #9 The Galatian, Jan 2, 2007
  10. Petra-O IX

    Petra-O IX Active Member

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    Would you be willling to do the same? All that was necessary was for her to be totally honest in asking for forgiveness and that is all you can ask anybody.
     
    #10 Petra-O IX, Jan 2, 2007
  11. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    I think you would realize that Galatian and I are on opposite ends of the political spectrum on this, and we seem to agree.

    Personally, I have never heard her make ANY attempt at remorse.

    Yes, forgiveness for me is much easier than it is for most, but that does not change the reality of what she (& a minority of activists) did to the American soldiers during Vietnam.

    You are attempting to equivocate the forgiveness of God with the forgiveness of men - if the two were the same then we would not need a judicial system.

     
    #11 El_Guero, Jan 2, 2007
  12. Baptist in Richmond

    Baptist in Richmond Active Member

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    Who am I to question her sincerity? I simply stated that she professed a faith in Christ.

    She has already made millions with that Jane Fonda Workout in the '80's, not to mention what she probably received from her divorce from Ted Turner. I don't see where she would have anything to gain by professing a faith in Christ. After all, I know of at least one politician from Texas who wanted nothing to do with God until he began pursuing political office.... yet nobody seems to question his sincerity.

    Regards,
    BiR
     
    #12 Baptist in Richmond, Jan 2, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 2, 2007
  13. Petra-O IX

    Petra-O IX Active Member

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    Then this couldn't be called true forgiveness. This would be an eye for an eye.

    Vengance is mine saith the Lord.
     
    #13 Petra-O IX, Jan 2, 2007
  14. Baptist in Richmond

    Baptist in Richmond Active Member

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    Personally, I have....

    Are you sure? I told you that I heard her ask forgiveness for what she did. Despite reading this, you have

    Wayne, you are my brother-in-Christ, and I love you, but you are absolutely WRONG on this point. I NEVER made an attempt to "equivocate the forgiveness of God with the forgiveness of men," I simply made an observation. Here is what I said again:



    That is all I wrote: no more, no less.
    There is nothing there about "the forgiveness of God."

    Regards,
    BiR
     
    #14 Baptist in Richmond, Jan 2, 2007
  15. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    I'm here to remind you that yes, Jane Fonda once made a profession of faith and then turned around and continued with production of feminist causes, including the V Monologue (which is too gross to post about here) demonstrating fruit of her changed condition into a "new creation, old things are passed away, behold all things are become new." (II Corinthians 5:17) :rolleyes:
     
    #15 LadyEagle, Jan 2, 2007
  16. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    What do you so arrogantly want answered?

    Would I willingly betray you to the enemy? Would I willingly betray your life to save the life of one good or one bad soldier and then speak one sentence asking for forgiveness?

    Now that is a much better question. Would I prefer to betray you or a soldier?

    Jane chose to betray the soldier . . . defenseless . . . imprisoned . . . prisoner of war. She must be your hero.

    My heroes are willing to lay down their lives for the defenseless - Jesus and soldiers.




     
    #16 El_Guero, Jan 2, 2007
  17. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    Ah....you beat me to the punch!

    I just got back from snopes.com. The men mentioned in the e-mail have stated that none of this is true and they don't know why it keeps resurfacing.

    She did pose with the North Vietnamese and she did call the American POWs liars when they made claims that they were tortured.

    She did make a mockery of the American government, suffering soldiers, and was guilty of "giving aid and comfort to the enemy".

    Her behavior was morally repugnant, but if we are going to brand her as the "great traitor" undeserving of forgiveness, then let's get our stories straight.

    By the way, this 100 Greatest Women thing was back in 1999.

    And yes, El Guero, she has apologized more than once on television. Whether she was sincere or not is not up to me.

    And forgiving her is not up to me. It's up to the American G.I.'s who were branded as liars when they were not and it's up to the families who lost love ones fighting the people she was fraternizing with.
     
    #17 Scarlett O., Jan 2, 2007
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2007
  18. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    EG, don't you get it? It's a clash of world views - conservatives vs the liberals on this board. It's in nearly every topic - a clash of world views as well as interpretation of Scripture.

    See my post above. By their fruits ye shall know them.....:BangHead:

    PS: The way I understand Scripture, if we as Christians have knowingly offended someone, we are to seek their forgiveness and make restitution if we have harmed them. Forgiveness from God is a separate issue.
     
    #18 LadyEagle, Jan 2, 2007
  19. Petra-O IX

    Petra-O IX Active Member

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    And yet it would be to my best interest to forgive you anyway without making conditions.
    Jane my hero? Really Wayne, you are better than that but I forgive you anyway.
     
    #19 Petra-O IX, Jan 2, 2007
  20. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    :laugh: :laugh:

    LadyEagle,

    I'm not laughing at your views or posts, but I must tell you that I was preparing to post to you that I was not offended by the V***** Monologues nor did I find them gross. Explicit, but not gross. Definitely....definitely not for mixed company, but not offensive.

    I guess our world views collide. :saint:


    I was also going to say Jane Fonda, if she is a christian, is a baby christian is an ocean of evil. I'm sure that she is surrounding by vulgar Hollywood forces that shaped her first 60 years. Perhaps you judge her fruit-bearing a little too harshly. Then again, perhaps you are quite right.

    I like you and your posts.....even though we walk sometimes on the opposite sides of the train tracks.

     
    #20 Scarlett O., Jan 2, 2007
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