Featured Abbreviated Word Study G2523, kathizete

This word literally means to sit down or to cause someone to sit down. One of its shades of meaning is to select and seat a person for a purpose, i.e. to seat as a judge or ruler. Another shade of meaning is to sit for the purpose of teaching i.e. when a teacher (rabbi) sat down, that indicated he was going to teach. And yet another shade of meaning is to sit or be seated near a person of importance as a way of being honored, i.e. Jesus sits at the right hand of God.

For this study we will look at the verses where someone is seated for the purpose of judging or arbitrating a dispute.

Matthew 23:2, saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses;

This seems to be an accurate translation choice, indicating exercising authority that has already been given or usurped, as opposed to being seated by others to exercise authority.

Luke 22:30, that you may eat and drink at My table in My kingdom, and you will sit on
thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Here, “will be seated” better conveys the idea of bestowed authority.

John 19:13, Therefore when Pilate heard these words, he brought Jesus out, and sat down on the judgment seat at a place called The Pavement, but in Hebrew, Gabbatha.

Here, “seated himself” would be better, more consistent with the idea of assuming authority.

Acts 25:17, So after they had assembled here, I did not delay, but on the next day took my seat on the tribunal and ordered the man to be brought before me.

Again, “seated myself” better conveys the idea of assuming authority.

1 Corinthians 6:4, So if you have law courts dealing with matters of this life, do you appoint them as judges who are of no account in the church?

Before addressing the translation of “kathizete” we should consider what this verse is actually saying. If you look at several different translations, you find two very different renderings. The NASB, and several others, turns the statement into a rhetorical question, reversing its message. This choice seems driven by the context, i.e. the statement was made to the shame of the Corinthians, as indicated in the following verse.

Lets look at a very literal, word for word rendering: “If ever (G1437), indeed (G3303), you may be having (G2192) life’s affairs (G962) tribunals (G2922) seat (G2523) those (G5128) having been scorned (G1848) among (G1722) the (G3588) called out (G1577).

The translation issue that divides the two opposite renderings is “do you seat those who have been scorned” as judges? And the answer is yes! Another way to look at it is to say you do not seat the Elders and leaders, those who have been elevated in the church, but the nobodies, the laypersons, for they should judge these common place disputes.

But leaving aside the perhaps mistaken rendering of the verse as a rhetorical question, if we focus in on our word, then “do you seat “ as judge, provides more transparency and correspondence with the actual word meaning.

 

Well I am happy to hear you are reading the word studies. I do not recall, but I expect I was looking at an interlinear, rather than a lexicon.

G2523, kathizō

 

Let me start with thanking you for your effort Greektim, to find fault with this thread.

I am aware that other Greek words form a family of words with similar meanings.

This was a study of G2523, not G2521 or G2516.

But I was unaware that the CT had G2521 at Luke 22:30. I should not have included it.

Lets discuss translating consistent with the Greek syntax, because that is a very sound goal in translation. Leaving aside 2521 and the variant at Luke 22:30, lets look at John 19:13, where you also noted a flaw in my study.

If I understood you, you said sat down is different from seated himself. Clearly there is not much difference in the message. I thought I was in the active voice, i.e. seated himself. Note that a very similar word, plural rather than singular, is translated seated themselves at Matthew 23:2.

 

The clock had timed out, so I could not edit the OP, so here is the corrected study, with the removal of a verse that I mistakenly included.

 

So the NASB translators were wrong at Matthew 23:2?

The other way to look at it is to say the subject was not receiving the action, i.e. middle voice, but was performing the action, active voice.

Perhaps you can reference from scripture a place where seated, seated himself, seated themselves, is translated from a middle voice version of G2523. OTOH, I have presented a case where the active voice is rendered seated themselves.

Otherwise, I will conclude you are making a distinction without a difference, i.e. seated himself, can be viewed as an accurate translation of the active voice.

 

Great, we agree, seated himself was not supplied to indicate a"reflective" understanding of the verb, but to make a better translation.

My understanding of the middle voice is accurate, but your understanding of my understanding needs work. The idea of middle is that an action done by the subject is active, and done to the subject is passive, and if the subject does something that benefits himself, then that falls in the middle. Here, himself is simply an added word, which might be put in italics, to make the action clear.

I do not pick and choose translations, I always base my word studies on the NASB.

No doubt my word study is flawed, but unless more flaws are presented, I have addressed and corrected those brought to my attention.

And I want to close by saying again, that I really do appreciate constructive criticism.

 

Thanks for the link, I do not own that book.

Reflexive pronouns like himself, themselves, reflect the action back on the subject. However, they are sometimes used with active voice verbs, in scripture, i.e. 1 John 5:21. So my offering is both consistent with a translation choice of the NASB (at Matthew 23:2), and of some Koine Greek writers, i.e. John (at 1 John 5:21.)

I learn something, or so I like to think, every time I study God's word. Word study is useful to unveil the nuanced meaning God conveyed in the original language, that may or may not have been lost in translation.

I did not know that Luke 22:30 used a different word (G2521) in the CT as opposed to the TR.

Or that sometimes reflexive pronouns are used with either active voice or middle voice verbs. As you know, I know nothing of Greek grammar, and so I pick up tidbits along the way.

Frequently, I look at a verse in a whole new light, because my understanding of what it is saying is changed.

 

Hi Rippon, have you seated yourself on the English chair, put there for any and all dictatorial elitists. Perhaps we need a show of hands to put you in charge. I specified word study, and therefore any word study would be included.

 

Well, at least I learned your view of translating active voice verbs with reflexive pronouns was based on a narrow understanding, and inconsistent with a translation used in the NASB, and a Greek usage as found in scripture.

Your premise, disavowing word study, is not shared by some schools because the process is taught.

The study of this word did not fundamentally alter my understanding of God's Word, but it increased my understanding of the associated verses. The OP presents several insights (flawed as they may be) that I did not have prior to the word study.

 

Your crystal ball is cloudy!

But some of the faults he claimed, proved to be non-faults. He did disagree with my conclusion, that seated or seated himself, seated themselves, etc. was a more transparent and correspondent choice. We disagree.