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Abortion in the cases of rape
- Thread starter Aaron
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DiamondLady
New Member
Why would you want to justify abortion in ANY case? Abortion is murder. Abortion is the very question that got Cliff Stearns unseated in our recent primary election. He was asked if he would support that life begins at conception. He said he supported that life begins at "viability", but never could come up with an answer as to when "viability" was exactly.
This is the kind of muddy waters created by these kinds of questions.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
And what portion of scripture would you base this position on?
"rape" .... "merely statutory" ..... "consensual"
How can an 8-year-old consent to sex with a 45-old-man? Or a 12-year-old? Even if he talked her into it and she didn't cry for him to stop - it does happen with small children and young teenagers, she has no capacity for understanding the totality of what she is agreeing to -ergo, she cannot consent. Rape does not have to be committed with blows to the face and broken bones for it to be "forcible".
However that wasn't your question.
I do not believe that rape or incest are automatic justifications for abortions.
I only know that if I had an 8 year old or 12 year old who was pregnant via a rape - statutory as some may call it - I don't know what I would do.
How can an 8-year-old consent to sex with a 45-old-man? Or a 12-year-old? Even if he talked her into it and she didn't cry for him to stop - it does happen with small children and young teenagers, she has no capacity for understanding the totality of what she is agreeing to -ergo, she cannot consent. Rape does not have to be committed with blows to the face and broken bones for it to be "forcible".
However that wasn't your question.
I do not believe that rape or incest are automatic justifications for abortions.
I only know that if I had an 8 year old or 12 year old who was pregnant via a rape - statutory as some may call it - I don't know what I would do.
saturneptune
New Member
Sounds like the Romney side step.
Ethel Waters used to sing "His Eye is on the Sparrow" at Billy Graham crusades.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0914083/bio
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0914083/bio
I can easily understand why no woman would want to have a child that was the result of rape, but I think it is important to remember the child is innocent, it is the rapist who is guilty.
There are many thousands of couples looking to adopt children, I believe this is a better answer than abortion.
Even if a woman is raped, it is a heavy burden to abort one's own child. I believe such a woman would be much happier if her child was adopted by good and caring parents.
My 2 cents.
There are many thousands of couples looking to adopt children, I believe this is a better answer than abortion.
Even if a woman is raped, it is a heavy burden to abort one's own child. I believe such a woman would be much happier if her child was adopted by good and caring parents.
My 2 cents.
menageriekeeper
Active Member
LE, so what? Do you believe that if Ethel's mother had the opportunity to abort she would have? Or do you believe that if she'd never been born no one else would have ever sung "His eye is on the Sparrow" to the blessing of crowds of people? This sort of thing is a very shallow reason to make abortion illegal.
Scarlett, you have the opinion closest to my own, only I can tell you what I would do: I'd explain what abortion was, how it was done, what it might mean to my daughter in the future in terms of her physical and mental health and that the child within her was innocent of the crime. And then I'd support the decision she made without recriminations of any kind.
(and then I'd likely hunt down the %@$(@^! who dared to touch and do violence to him)
Bilwald, abortions used to be ignored/allowed until the point of "quickening": ie, the point that the baby's movements could be felt by the mother. That normally happens around 14 weeks. IMO, this is a better cut off point than the the end of second trimester when arguably and with great help a fetus could survive outside the womb. Nowdays, women likely know they are pregnant by the time they miss their first cycle (3 or 4 weeks). There is no need for abortions after 14 weeks, unless the health of the mother or alternately the health of the infant make it such that continuing the pregnancy would result in greater harm rather than less harm to either.
Scarlett, you have the opinion closest to my own, only I can tell you what I would do: I'd explain what abortion was, how it was done, what it might mean to my daughter in the future in terms of her physical and mental health and that the child within her was innocent of the crime. And then I'd support the decision she made without recriminations of any kind.
(and then I'd likely hunt down the %@$(@^! who dared to touch and do violence to him)
Bilwald, abortions used to be ignored/allowed until the point of "quickening": ie, the point that the baby's movements could be felt by the mother. That normally happens around 14 weeks. IMO, this is a better cut off point than the the end of second trimester when arguably and with great help a fetus could survive outside the womb. Nowdays, women likely know they are pregnant by the time they miss their first cycle (3 or 4 weeks). There is no need for abortions after 14 weeks, unless the health of the mother or alternately the health of the infant make it such that continuing the pregnancy would result in greater harm rather than less harm to either.
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Alright. Reality. I believe to enough of degree - it is. Enough that the act must be judged as illegal.
Here's what I mean.
I've worked with teens for 60% of my life. I know that so many of them have the physical appearance of an adult and participate in adult activities such as drinking, smoking, sexual activity, driving cars, some being emancipated minors, and more.
But knowing what I know about their brains and the fact that their frontal lobes haven't even finished making all the proper connections to the rest of their brain - I see so many of these young people participating in adult activities as tragic.
Think about ourselves and some of our peers - at one time engaging in activities or wanting to because we wanted to be perceived as adults. And now - looking back, we know that we weren't. And we regret things.
There is a reason why we don't allow young people to vote before 18 or join the military. And it's why we discourage them to marry, leave the house, get full-time jobs, and live like adults while under 18.
They may look like an adult and even act like one. But they just aren't.
A 16 or 17 year old may be rebellious and an experimenter. But those two things only serve to prove their lack of responsible adult decision-making skills.
A 45-year-old man may convince her to have sex or she may even convince him to have sex and she may even like it. But it doesn't matter what her desires and thinking it - the adult in question has the responsibility to say no and flee.
I would not counsel a 16 or 17 year old to have an abortion if she became pregnant via an encounter like this. She's old enough to bear the child and give it away.
And this I know, too, from personal experience with some of these young people. Sometimes the sexual encounters begin really young and with a trusted adult who is an abuser.
I've got to be delicate here. Some of these adult abusers actually seduce children. They are skilled at convincing the child that this is love and they - and it sickens me to type this - they take great pains in seeing that the abuse makes the child respond physically to the abuser.
I've seen teenagers who were in "relationships" with pedophiles when they were as young as 4 or 5 and it went on - unknown to anyone for years. If the abuser can shame the child into "liking" it and convincing him or her that this is normal, the child is almost 100% guaranteed not to tell.
And they grow to be older teens who - by all appearances - are sexually agressive. But it's not that - it's that this proclivity to having sex with adults is all that they know. They understand the manipulation of sex - because they've been manipulated themselves.
But that STILL doesn't make them an adult with responsbile decision-making abilities.
And even for the 16 or 17 year old who was not abused as a younger child - but became sexually active with an adult AT 16 or 17, I just cannot declare that to be anything but an abuse of power on the part of the adult. Even if the 16 or 17 year old knows it's wrong and just goes along with it.
There's physical force and then there is force by emotional, intellectual, spiritual, and mental manipulation.
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MK said:
Sister, that a wisely honest answer and better than mine. Thank you.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
That is an exceedingly sorry and sinful position for a Christian to take!
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
I understand what you are saying. Sometimes problems experienced in person are totally different than in the abstract. However, I believe that is the reason some issues like abortion must be addressed apart from the personal experience you pose. Abortion is the slaughter of an innocent child and that is wrong and a sin!
In 1988 Gov. Dukakis ran against George H. W. Bush for president. Gov. Dukakis was opposed to capital punishment. He was asked, whether in a debate I can't remember, if he would hold the same position for one who murdered his wife. His answer was yes. I believe that was actually the principled answer but may have been one of the things that caused his defeat. He came across as devoid of emotion but again he stuck to his principles.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Even if consensual it is still rape, is illegal in most states, and should be punished!
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
What does the health of the mother mean? Her life or inconvenience. With the medicine of this day I doubt that the life of the mother is a real issue. Tim Tebow is evidence of that!
General Mung Beans
Member
Its a rather cheap one-liner but I must ask: We don't execute rapists in this country do we?
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