Abortion Is Wrong

[PrivateWoman]

It breaks my heart that some Christians think that abortion is not murder because it is legal. There are some things in America that are legal that are horrible. Legality of Abortion doesn't make it ok. Abortion kills so many unborn babies and I know God is so grieved with this.

I believe that abortion is not right because it is killing of unborn babies. Women who don't want their babies can always give them up for adoption. There is certainly a wonderful choice women can make if they don't want their babies. A lot of wonderful Christian couples would be glad to pay for the lady's medical bills and adopt her baby. Life begins at conception. Look at the first part of Jeremiah 1:5 (Before I (A)formed you in the womb I knew you). This shows that you were a human before you were born. God loves unborn babies very much and they are human beings like other humans who have been born already.

A 2 year old toddler is no more of a human than a 1 year old. They both are humans. Unborn babies are humans. How would people react if you told them that you could kill a 1 year old child because he had not reached age 2 yet? That shows you that you can certainly not kill an unborn baby yet. I think it is strange that someone can be charged with two murders if he kills a mother who is pregnant, but abortions by a doctor is okay.

I encourage you to read a former abortionist, Dr. Beverly McMillian's testimony at http://www.prolifeaction.org/providers/mcmillan.php. She did abortions for years and then she became a Christian and quit doing abortions because she realized that they were wrong. She owns a big all female ob/gyn practice in Jackson, MS today. You also should consider ordering "ProLife Answers to ProChoice Arguments" by Randy Alcorn and read it.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Just because God formed and knew Jeremiah in the womb doesn't mean that He also forms everyone else the same way and nothing in the passage of scripture you quoted even suggests such a thing. It is one thing for God to create Jeremiah for the specific purpose of rebuilding the temple and another to say that God created the John Hopkins shooter for the specific purpose of shooting a doctor and then killing his own mother before he taking his own life. People need to THINK before pulling scripture out of context.

The only scriptures that actually speak of when life begins state that life exists in when breath and blood exist. (Gen 2:7 and Lev 17:14)

Now you can decide for yourself if an unborn human meets those criteria. I myself believe that once an egg implants in the womb that it does meet those criteria albeit by the proxy of the mother. Before that, not so much.

Be careful where you trod in this subject, because it is a small step from believing abortion to be murder to saying that the use of any and all birth control constitutes the very same thing.

 

[Jim1999]

abortion if necessary, but not necessarily abortion. That is my motto.

There is a lot of scripture and theology to fit in here.

Cheers,

Jim

Moderator note: It is the Baptist Board official stand that life begins at conception and all post that run contrary can be edited----see rule #2

 

[FR7 Baptist]

Abortion is not murder in the same way that being an illegal alien is not a crime.

I'm pro-life and I support a pro-life plank in the Democratic platform. I want to make elective abortion a crime and throw elective abortion doctors in jail for not more than five years and fine them not more that $250,000. If Roe v. Wade is overturned, the feds should outlaw elective abortion by using Congress' power in the Commerce Clause. However, that will never happen, so we need to work with our pro-choice friends to reduce the number of elective abortions.

 

[RalphIII]

It breaks my heart that some Christians think that abortion is not murder because it is legal.

I have not visited the Baptist Board in a long time because of such as this. Not everyone who calls upon the Lord will be saved as the Bible teaches us. In other words, there are a lot of people who portray or even think they are Christian when in fact they are not. At best, or worst however you see it, there are Christians who at times call Jesus a liar as they attempt to defend their indefensible position.

Matthew 7:21-23 (New King James Version)
I Never Knew You

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Abortion is wrong and no Christian can read the Bible and conclude otherwise. The Bible emphatically supports that statement throughout; from the evils of murder, to pregnancy being exalted, to Jesus Himself, and many other Bible versus, speaking specifically of children as being a blessing, etc, etc.

 

[RalphIII]

"....Be careful where you trod in this subject, because it is a small step from believing abortion to be murder to saying that the use of any and all birth control constitutes the very same thing.

That is a cop-out, which I have seen many times on here.


1)**** It is one thing to knowingly and purposefully kill a living child within the womb as abortion does.****

2) Even if a woman never used the pill, there is no guarantee with intercourse you will have a fertilized egg. In fact, it is a rarer occurance. Some people try for months and even years to have children. Even if they did fertilize an egg there is no guarantee it will attach to the uterus naturally, thus will be lost. Given your attempted moralistic argument, it could be argued people should not have intercourse at all?

The pill first protects against an egg getting fertilzed in the first place, thus the percentage is significantly nill, and then against the egg attaching to the uterus. If you want to have a Pro-Life purest argumdent and say the later is wrong, then you have a leg to stand on. But again there are two problems with your stance. 1) The odds are significantly against that type occurance but it does happen. 2) Again, it is one thing to purposefully kill an unborn child versus unknowingly losing a fertilized egg when all attempts were made to avoid that in the first place!




I don't know your position but you appear to be attempting to make a justification for abortion? That is how that point is typically used as I have seen by those who want to give a justification for abortion.

Otherwise, are you here to say 1) you emphatically oppose abortion and the pill, as there is the possibility it can abort a fertilized egg?
Or 2) are you just trying to justify abortion by saying since the pill has the possibility of aborting an egg, abortion should also be allowed?

What is your stance please?

 

[FR7 Baptist]

Ralph, if you were in a burning building and there was an adult in one room, and an embryo in a petri dish in the other, and you could only rescue one, which one would you rescue?

 

[RalphIII]

abortion if necessary, but not necessarily abortion. That is my motto.

There is a lot of scripture and theology to fit in here.

Cheers,

Jim

You are wrong sir. There is a lot of Scripture which speaks of life at conception. Try reading the Bible. God does not see it as a blob sir, why do you choose to? That blob as you call it will never be anything other than a child if allowed to grow!

Would you care to give your scripture whereas God does not see a developing child or a child in the womb as such? Because the Bible emphatically refutes you!


Try reading Psalm 51:5 or Psalm 139: 13-16, or Isaiah 44:2, or Isaiah 44:24, or Luke 1:39-44 just for starters. Otherwise, take this verse as but another example, if you can't bring yourself to recognize conception as life or importance thereof of a child within the womb, as God see's it.

Isaiah 7:14

14Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

If we as Christians can't get right with God who will?

 

[annsni]

That is a cop-out, which I have seen many times on here.


1)**** It is one thing to knowingly and purposefully kill a living child within the womb as abortion does.****

2) Even if a woman never used the pill, there is no guarantee with intercourse you will have a fertilized egg. In fact, it is a rarer occurance. Some people try for months and even years to have children. Even if they did fertilize an egg there is no guarantee it will attach to the uterus naturally, thus will be lost. Given your attempted moralistic argument, it could be argued people should not have intercourse at all?

The pill first protects against an egg getting fertilzed in the first place, thus the percentage is significantly nill, and then against the egg attaching to the uterus. If you want to have a Pro-Life purest argumdent and say the later is wrong, then you have a leg to stand on. But again there are two problems with your stance. 1) The odds are significantly against that type occurance but it does happen. 2) Again, it is one thing to purposefully kill an unborn child versus unknowingly losing a fertilized egg when all attempts were made to avoid that in the first place!




I don't know your position but you appear to be attempting to make a justification for abortion? That is how that point is typically used as I have seen by those who want to give a justification for abortion.

Otherwise, are you here to say 1) you emphatically oppose abortion and the pill, as there is the possibility it can abort a fertilized egg?
Or 2) are you just trying to justify abortion by saying since the pill has the possibility of aborting an egg, abortion should also be allowed?

What is your stance please?

See, while there is a small possibility of it happening, ovulations do occur while taking the pill. The pill works on the woman's body in two ways: suppress ovulation and making the womb inhospitable to a fertilized ovum. It is that second action that has caused me to use another form of birth control while on the pill (for hormonal/cycle reasons). Understanding that fertilization COULD occur was enough for me to not want to risk creating a child and then it not being able to implant because of something that I personally am doing to change my body to be hostile to a fertilized ovum.

If, in the course of a woman's natural cycle, an egg is fertilized yet fails to implant in the uterus, it is what I would consider an "act of God". It was not due to something the woman did but how her body is made and God's sovereign will. But to purposefully cause the uterus to be inhospitable to a fertilized ovum I believe to be wrong. A life has been created yet we wash it away - knowingly or not. Ignorance will not be a good excuse in heaven last I checked. Just knowing the possibility is there was enough for me to be concerned about conceiving and therefore using another form of birth control to decrease the chance of egg and sperm ever meeting.

 

[RalphIII]

Ralph, if you were in a burning building and there was an adult in one room, and an embryo in a petri dish in the other, and you could only rescue one, which one would you rescue?

I would rescue the one God lead me to! Which one would you rescue?

 

[FR7 Baptist]

I would rescue the one God lead me to! Which one would you rescue?

Cop-out. I would rescue the adult.

 

[menageriekeeper]

My stance is that while bc may cause a fertilized egg to be "washed away" as Ann puts it, but that it is neither abortion nor sin, because before implantation a fertilized egg only hold the potential for life and is not "alive" as described in the Bible (ie, it neither has blood nor breath).

Once the fetus has a functioning heart and active placenta thus establishing the Biblical criteria of blood and breath, then it is possible that an abortion is "murder", ie the cold blooded killing of a human being. It is also possible that I am wrong and as Jim has stated, life doesn't begin until a child draws its first breath or would be able to breathe on its own without the mother's body to provide for it.

 

[FR7 Baptist]

My stance is that while bc may cause a fertilized egg to be "washed away" as Ann puts it, but that it is neither abortion nor sin, because before implantation a fertilized egg only hold the potential for life and is not "alive" as described in the Bible (ie, it neither has blood nor breath).

You have a valid point, but I see an issue with your stance being that at fertilization the zygote has all the genetic material for a fully developed human life. While it is true that pregnancy doesn't begin until the zygote implants in the uterus, at which point it begins to divide into more cells and becomes an embryo, I think it's very possible that life begins at fertilization. Perhaps you could respond to my concerns.

Once the fetus has a functioning heart and active placenta thus establishing the Biblical criteria of blood and breath, then it is possible that an abortion is "murder", ie the cold blooded killing of a human being. It is also possible that I am wrong and as Jim has stated, life doesn't begin until a child draws its first breath or would be able to breathe on its own without the mother's body to provide for it.

It's certainly possible that either one of us is wrong. It's important that we maintain humility on issues where the Scriptures aren't very clear. However, I think that scriptural principles support a position where it can be safely said that elective abortion is a sin. Whether the government should ban elective abortion is a separate issue, but I tend to think so. My exception would be cases where the zygote/embryo/fetus is threatening the life of the mother, in which case I would be all in favor of aborting the pregnancy.

 

[RalphIII]

See, while there is a small possibility of it happening, ovulations do occur while taking the pill. The pill works on the woman's body in two ways: suppress ovulation and making the womb inhospitable to a fertilized ovum. It is that second action that has caused me to use another form of birth control while on the pill (for hormonal/cycle reasons). Understanding that fertilization COULD occur was enough for me to not want to risk creating a child and then it not being able to implant because of something that I personally am doing to change my body to be hostile to a fertilized ovum.

If, in the course of a woman's natural cycle, an egg is fertilized yet fails to implant in the uterus, it is what I would consider an "act of God". It was not due to something the woman did but how her body is made and God's sovereign will. But to purposefully cause the uterus to be inhospitable to a fertilized ovum I believe to be wrong. A life has been created yet we wash it away - knowingly or not. Ignorance will not be a good excuse in heaven last I checked. Just knowing the possibility is there was enough for me to be concerned about conceiving and therefore using another form of birth control to decrease the chance of egg and sperm ever meeting.

First, I applaud your conscious efforts and as I have had this specific debate before.....

Please answer the following;

Do you oppose abortions in all cases, including rape and incest?

Because if not, you would be attempting to juggle and justify moral issues according to your standard.

Quite honestly, this is a tough subject when you get into the various situations as we speak. Is abortion ok with rape/incest and or even when a mothers life is truly at stake?

I am against abortion. If a woman were raped and/or incest she can go to the hospital which can take immediate steps to block fertilization similar to the pill. If a woman waits months down the road and after conception, I would encourage her to carry the baby as many others have admirably done so. Do you agree with that and would you have the child in that situation?

Do we as Christians look down on people who choose to abort in those situations? Or more specifically, do we say in such situations abortions should be legal or illegal?

In regards to the pill. Abortion cannot and should not be justified or compared to the taking of the pill. In one instance the person is purposefully and willfully killing a child and there is no comparison as such. In the other instance the person is honestly doing everything they can to avoid conceiving as morally accepted in our society today.

If you can show a study which states there is a high percentage of fertilized eggs being lost, while a lady is on the pill, due to the pill; then your argument is valid and people need to be informed of such.

God Bless

 

[RalphIII]

Cop-out. I would rescue the adult.

Paul,
You are simply acting as Satan did or the Scribes when they tempted and challenged Jesus! I mean can you be any more blatant?

You could have answered that question any way you want and call me as you like. Of course I would save the adult if possible. I would then be sad the family lost the opportunity to have children as they desired!


Now answer two questions for me:
1) Are you against abortion, which is the point of this thread, or are you for it in instances? BTW, the Democratic platform is for abortions and does everything they can to protect that "right" as they see it and in all instances. Nothing could stand more blatantly in opposition to the Word of God.


2) If you were a doctor at a fertilization clinic which was on fire, would you risk your life to save a families developing embryo's? Isn't that the more proper question instead of attempting to challenge people as to who has more value in your eyes?

Take care

 

[RalphIII]

Scratch. I just want to say God Bless to those who see abortion as indeed murder. Take care, Ralph

 

[Don]

My stance is that while bc may cause a fertilized egg to be "washed away" as Ann puts it, but that it is neither abortion nor sin, because before implantation a fertilized egg only hold the potential for life and is not "alive" as described in the Bible (ie, it neither has blood nor breath).

Once the fetus has a functioning heart and active placenta thus establishing the Biblical criteria of blood and breath, then it is possible that an abortion is "murder", ie the cold blooded killing of a human being. It is also possible that I am wrong and as Jim has stated, life doesn't begin until a child draws its first breath or would be able to breathe on its own without the mother's body to provide for it.

The presence of the "functioning heart" is a misnomer; blood circulation starts before the heart is fully developed.

 

[annsni]

First, I applaud your conscious efforts and as I have had this specific debate before.....

Please answer the following;

Do you oppose abortions in all cases, including rape and incest?

Because if not, you would be attempting to juggle and justify moral issues according to your standard.

Quite honestly, this is a tough subject when you get into the various situations as we speak. Is abortion ok with rape/incest and or even when a mothers life is truly at stake?

I am against abortion. If a woman were raped and/or incest she can go to the hospital which can take immediate steps to block fertilization similar to the pill. If a woman waits months down the road and after conception, I would encourage her to carry the baby as many others have admirably done so. Do you agree with that and would you have the child in that situation?

Do we as Christians look down on people who choose to abort in those situations? Or more specifically, do we say in such situations abortions should be legal or illegal?

In regards to the pill. Abortion cannot and should not be justified or compared to the taking of the pill. In one instance the person is purposefully and willfully killing a child and there is no comparison as such. In the other instance the person is honestly doing everything they can to avoid conceiving as morally accepted in our society today.

If you can show a study which states there is a high percentage of fertilized eggs being lost, while a lady is on the pill, due to the pill; then your argument is valid and people need to be informed of such.

God Bless

I do believe any abortion is wrong except in the case of tubal ectopic pregnancies. That is the only case where the child has a zero chance of survival and the mother's life is in great jeopardy if the pregnancy continues. But in the case of rape or incest, I do believe abortion is completely wrong.

It is obvious that the pill can allow fertilization but not implantation at times since there are pregnancies that result from the pill too. That means that fertilization absolutely happens. Additionally, the physical affects of the pill are clearly observed in the uterine lining and it is well known that it makes a womb inhospitable to a fertilized ovum - thus it is easy to conclude that there WILL be fertilizations without implantation. If that sort of thing happens naturally, it's not by a woman's conscious choice but when one is on the pill, there is plenty of information in the pill's packet that comes with it and from other sources that clearly show that fertilization can still occur but the uterus will be inhospitable to a fertilized ovum thus allowing "pregnancy" to not occur.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

abortion if necessary, but not necessarily abortion. That is my motto.

There is a lot of scripture and theology to fit in here.

Cheers,

Jim

Disgusting. I am glad the B.B. won't tolerate any further discussion on this issue.

:tear:

 

[billwald]

God aborts over half of all conceptions before the woman knows she is pregnant. So if Jesus is God then the answer to WWJD?????