Abortion

[TisMe]

Exodus 21:22 - "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she has a miscarriage but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. "

Clearly, God does not consider destroying a fetus to be the same as killing a person. What are all your thoughts?

 

[beameup]

The soul is imparted at "first breath". Like all mammals, in the womb the developing fetus has a spirit, but only man has a soul.

If someone planted a seedling in the O.T., and another rooted it up, it would not be the same as someone destroying a fully grown tree. See the difference?

 

[Gorship]

oi vei. really?

Question: "Does the Bible teach that life begins at conception?"

Answer: The Bible does teach that life begins at conception. Every culture's view of when human life begins changes as society's values, moral standards, and knowledge about the process of embryonic development change. Prior to the 1973 U.S. Supreme Court decision that allowed abortion on demand, developing embryos were considered unborn persons. Now, even a fetus that could survive on its own outside its mother's womb could be aborted, under certain medical circumstances. This demonstrates that we do not consider an unborn child to be a true human being.

Science tells us that human life begins at the time of conception. From the moment fertilization takes place, the child's genetic makeup is already complete. Its gender has already been determined, along with its height and hair, eye and skin color. The only thing the embryo needs to become a fully-functioning being is the time to grow and develop.

More importantly, God reveals to us in His Word that not only does life begin at conception, but He knows who we are even before then (Jeremiah 1:5). King David said this about God's role in our conception: "For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb . . . your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be" (Psalm 139:13, 16).

Society continually seeks to devalue the lives of the unborn, creating its own definitions of humanity based on distorted views of morality. But the undeniable fact is that life begins at creation, and a human is created as soon as he or she is conceived. God is present at our creation; He is, in fact, our Creator. Our value as human beings created in His image is conceived even before we are.

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/life-begin-conception.html#ixzz2WmpHMS1C

so its a life. Then we don't murder - you do agree with that right? So we don't abort children.

 

[Van]

Extrapolation in Reverse

Is extending God's protection provided by His commandments, to the unborn an extrapolation of biblical truth? No. If you kill a pre-born, the penalty is a life for a life. Thus the bible recognizes the life of the preborn as equal with a post born, thus logically indicating both as en-souled. Thus the argument for delayed en-soulment is an effort to deny and remove God's protection, an extrapolation in reverse.

Therefore God’s mandate that penalty be applied to those who take any human beings life applies from conception to death.

Lets take a look at Exodus 21:22:

Here is version of the verse from the NAS, with the added words removed and the literal translation inserted.
“And if men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that the child comes forth, yet there is no injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband may demand of him; and he shall pay as the judges decide. But if there is any injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life....”
As you can see, the pro-abortionist argument that the childbirth is a miscarriage, a dead child, has no basis in Hebrew. There is a fine for causing a pre-mature birth, but a severe penalty for causing the death of the child.
This equality, the loss of pre-born child’s life being requiring the life of a post-born adult is strong evidence that the whole bogus theory about delayed en-soulment is a construct of convenience.

 

[Bro. James]

Surf the first 15 entries on the www under: "Offering our children to Molech".

Clearly, God has zero tolerance for killing His children.

Clearly, abortion is an a abomination to God.

Abortion is a major reason God no longer blesses this country.

"Abortion is no longer murder--it is freedom of choice." This is the mindset which permeates our society. Another: Homosexuality is not abomination but an alternate lifestyle." Surf: What happened to Sodom and Gommorah?

Even so, come Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[TisMe]

Clearly, God has zero tolerance for killing His children.


Bro. James

"Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses." (1 Samuel 15:3)

Please, see my tough question thread. I posted this same scripture there and I have others. If God does not have ( some ) tolerance and desire to kill children then perhaps abortion is exceptable in his eyes.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

"Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses." (1 Samuel 15:3)

Please, see my tough question thread. I posted this same scripture there and I have others. If God does not have ( some ) tolerance and desire to kill children then perhaps abortion is exceptable in his eyes.

So, clearly, you're pro-abortion and you have an agenda here.

I'm going to go ahead and pretend that you're sincere.

I start with the prohibition against murder. Murder, ratsach, is tha act of man assuming for himself the perogative of God to take life.

Under that, alone, abortion would be prohibited.

Then, I would appeal to the Bible's numerous prohibitions against shedding innocent blood. Strictly speaking, no one is truly innocent, as all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. However, these prohibitions imply the shedding not only of innocent blood, but of those who are helpleess.

That would prohibit abortion.

Your sloppy eisegesis of Ex 21:22 and 1 Sam 15:3 notwithstanding, using the analogy of scripture, scripture is clear that abortion is wrong.

And I haven't even scratched the surface. If I thought for a moment that you were sincere and that a conversation with you wouldn't devolve into arguing with a fool according to his own folly, I could go on all day.

 

[TisMe]

So, clearly, you're pro-abortion and you have an agenda here.

I'm going to go ahead and pretend that you're sincere.

I start with the prohibition against murder. Murder, ratsach, is tha act of man assuming for himself the perogative of God to take life.

Under that, alone, abortion would be prohibited.

Then, I would appeal to the Bible's numerous prohibitions against shedding innocent blood. Strictly speaking, no one is truly innocent, as all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. However, these prohibitions imply the shedding not only of innocent blood, but of those who are helpleess.

That would prohibit abortion.

Your sloppy eisegesis of Ex 21:22 and 1 Sam 15:3 notwithstanding, using the analogy of scripture, scripture is clear that abortion is wrong.

And I haven't even scratched the surface. If I thought for a moment that you were sincere and that a conversation with you wouldn't devolve into arguing with a fool according to his own folly, I could go on all day.

On the Contrary I don't believe abortion is okay. John, I am only wondering why God said this.

Can you explain the scripture I posted?

 

[Pastor_Bob]

Clearly, God does not consider destroying a fetus to be the same as killing a person.

There is no indication that God recognizes what today's science calls a "fetus." What we call "pregnant" today, God calls "with child." The same word translated "with child" is also translated in a few passages as "shall conceive." So, at the very moment of conception, God considered there to be a human life inside the mother's womb.

For what it's worth, when I was growing up, it was considered very risqué to even use the term "pregnant" when referring to a woman. We always said that she was "having a baby."

 

[Bro. James]

"Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses." (1 Samuel 15:3)

Please, see my tough question thread. I posted this same scripture there and I have others. If God does not have ( some ) tolerance and desire to kill children then perhaps abortion is exceptable in his eyes.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
God has no tolerance for pagan idolatry. He has a sovereign will and a permissive will. He allows the bad stuff until judgement comes. i.e. The Flood of Noah, Sodom and Gommorrah and other plain examples of God's wrath. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God.

The promised land was filled with pagan idolatry, not children of God. His chosen people were told to utterly destroy many of them. In fact Israel got in serious trouble when they did not follow orders.

Many in Christendom do not see the wrath/judgement side of God.

Even so, come Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[Scarlett O.]

Exodus 21:22 - "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she has a miscarriage but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. "

Clearly, God does not consider destroying a fetus to be the same as killing a person. What are all your thoughts?

Clearly? Really? Are these atheists yanking your chain that badly? I cannot begin to tell how many times I've heard these same old questions you are raising. My advice to you is study for yourself and stop letting these people who do NOT want an answer get under your skin. That's all they want.

What version are you using? The only version I can find that says "miscarriage" is the King James 2000.

All the other reputable ones say "premature birth" or "fruit leave her womb", but their is no harm.

Look at this link of several versions of this passage. The overwhelmingly majority imply no death of the baby or the mother in verse 22.

http://biblehub.com/exodus/21-22.htm

I read this as saying that if the woman gets hit hard enough to cause her to go into labor and have the baby even prematurely, but there is not harm (to either the mother or the baby) - the offender will owe a fine as set by the husband and agreed upon by a judge.

But if the offender hits her hard enough to cause labor and harm (death) comes to either the mother or the baby, a life is required for a life.

 

[Revmitchell]

Exodus 21:22 - "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she has a miscarriage but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. "

Clearly, God does not consider destroying a fetus to be the same as killing a person. What are all your thoughts?

This post is pure evil.

 

[TisMe]

This post is pure evil.

Hi, Rev

That is the point. How to I combat the friends and family members whom bring up these sort of verses each time I try and witness.

 

[TisMe]

Clearly? Really? Are these atheists yanking your chain that badly? I cannot begin to tell how many times I've heard these same old questions you are raising. My advice to you is study for yourself and stop letting these people who do NOT want an answer get under your skin. That's all they want.

What version are you using? The only version I can find that says "miscarriage" is the King James 2000.

All the other reputable ones say "premature birth" or "fruit leave her womb", but their is no harm.

Look at this link of several versions of this passage. The overwhelmingly majority imply no death of the baby or the mother in verse 22.

http://biblehub.com/exodus/21-22.htm

I read this as saying that if the woman gets hit hard enough to cause her to go into labor and have the baby even prematurely, but there is not harm (to either the mother or the baby) - the offender will owe a fine as set by the husband and agreed upon by a judge.

But if the offender hits her hard enough to cause labor and harm (death) comes to either the mother or the baby, a life is required for a life.

I know, I am starting to understand why people say "Never talk about Religion or Politics" with family and friends. It has only driven our relationships further apart.

Perhaps, I will not continue to converse in such matters but I only wish they could be open minded and try and learn my position and beliefs.

Maybe, I am fighting an up hill battle.