Absolute Christian Perfection

[Brother Bob]

nope............... God gave me a heart of flesh and His Grace watches over me.

Yes he paid in this life but you all have been posting that Jesus paid for all future sins so why would a person be punished for anything if its already paid for. I think you all have boxed yourselves in a corner.

 

[DHK]

How do you get that we justify sin when we constantly affirm that which the Bible says?

That sin must be confessed, that nothing that defiles will be in that city, that sin can have no dominion over the one wanting to spend eternity with Christ.

It ios not us who are trying to justify sin, but the ones who claim unconfessed sin is ok. These make statements as such: 'You made a profession of faith, so it does not matter if there is unconfessed sin in your heart.'

1. It is apparent that you are unaware of the exceeding sinfulness of sin.
2. It is apparent that you are unaware of the greatness of the holiness of God.

God does not tolerate sin; any sin--not pride, lying, self-righteousness, anger, etc. All of these sins are just as evil and wicked as adultery and murder. They are all an abomination in his sight. The fact that you, like Bob, divide sins into two classes (big and little) shows how you justify sin. Big sins are bad; little sins are justifiable. If one commits a little sin he will not be denied entrance into heaven (it is justifiable), but if he commits a big sin like adultery he in no way can enter into heaven. Such a sin is not justified at all. You justify sin.

Even if you teach that all sin must be confessed, you must allow for the fact that you don't have a choice in the matter. Christ alone holds the keys of "hell and death" (Rev.1:18). He knows when you will die, under what circumstances, how you will die, etc. You do not choose the time or circumstances of your death. If you die of a sudden heart-attack with some unconfessed sin in your life you will (according to your own theology) go straight to Hell. One will not always have the time to confess every evil thought, every angry thought, every action that is ungodly, etc. Death may come very quickly. You are not as perfect as you claim to be.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

 

[Brother Bob]

God does not tolerate sin; any sin--not pride, lying, self-righteousness, anger, etc. All of these sins are just as evil and wicked as adultery and murder. They are all an abomination in his sight. The fact that you, like Bob, divide sins into two classes (big and little) shows how you justify sin. Big sins are bad; little sins are justifiable. If one commits a little sin he will not be denied entrance into heaven (it is justifiable), but if he commits a big sin like adultery he in no way can enter into heaven. Such a sin is not justified at all. You justify sin.

A person who commits adultery may go to heaven. He may even go to heaven while he is in the act of committing adultery. His sins are covered by the blood.

You speak both ways DHK; a double minded man is unstable in his ways.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

DHK,

Again you falsely accuse me of something that I have not done... which seems to be par for the course for you.

Nowhere have I separated sin. As a matter of fact, I have constantly said any unconfessed sin will assure you denial into God's Kingdom.

Why is it you like to trhow out falseaccusatrions so much?

 

[Brother Bob]

He gets that from me HBSMN , for I say there are some sins which are listed that will keep a person from going to Heaven and I say a saved person will not commit them. I agree all sin must be forgiven to go to heaven but DHK don't believe that.

1 Cor 6
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

DHK:
A person who commits adultery may go to heaven. He may even go to heaven while he is in the act of committing adultery. His sins are covered by the blood.

 

[DHK]

DHK,

Again you falsely accuse me of something that I have not done... which seems to be par for the course for you.

Nowhere have I separated sin. As a matter of fact, I have constantly said any unconfessed sin will assure you denial into God's Kingdom.

Why is it you like to trhow out falseaccusatrions so much?

We've been through this before. It is not so much me, but the Word of God.
God's Word calls you a liar.

Romans 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

I am only the messenger here.
All mankind has lied, and does lie. God says it is so. Who am I to argue with God?
If you deny that you lie, you will have just told another lie and that one quite publicly.

1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

[Brother Bob]

Romans 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Its a shame you can't see that all that scriptures is saying is that God's word is above all. If you disagree with the word then its you that lie. Its not saying that all men are liars unless they say God is not true. YOu use that over and over and know not what it says.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

We've been through this before. It is not so much me, but the Word of God.
God's Word calls you a liar.

Romans 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

I am only the messenger here.
All mankind has lied, and does lie. God says it is so. Who am I to argue with God?
If you deny that you lie, you will have just told another lie and that one quite publicly.

1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

If you are the messenger, deliver the message without your own interpretation of that message.

 

[Shiloh]

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Bobs bible says this:

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, until they sin certain sins, and shall not come into condemnation unless they commit adultery; but is passed from death unto life.....maybe!

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Bobs bible says this:

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, until they sin certain sins, and shall not come into condemnation unless they commit adultery; but is passed from death unto life.....maybe!

James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

 

[Brother Bob]

Bobs bible says this:

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, until they sin certain sins, and shall not come into condemnation unless they commit adultery; but is passed from death unto life.....maybe! By Shiloh!!

God's Bible:

Hebrews, chapter 6

"4": For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

"5": And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

"6": If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


1 Cor 6
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

 

[DHK]

If you are the messenger, deliver the message without your own interpretation of that message.

Without my interpretation
In Romans 3:4 the exact words are: "everyman a liar"
Can it be any clearer?

 

[grahame]

nope............... God gave me a heart of flesh and His Grace watches over me.

Yes he paid in this life but you all have been posting that Jesus paid for all future sins so why would a person be punished for anything if its already paid for. I think you all have boxed yourselves in a corner.

Bob, dear friend. What do you believe our Lord Jesus accomplished on the cross for us? Do you believe he just paid for those sins which we committed in our past, up until our conversion? Or are we covered by his blood for those sins that we might commit in the future, albeit ignorantly? I just need to know what you believe on this matter of what Christ actually accomplished on the cross? What you are saying still seems unclear to me.

 

[Shiloh]

Why do I feel like I am beating a dead horse, or trying to teach an old dog a new trick? :BangHead:

Rom 6:9, 10 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

Heb 7:27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

Heb 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

The priesthood and law by which perfection could not come, are done away; the Priest is risen, and a dispensation now set up, by which true believers may be made perfect. Such a change is plain. The law which made the Levitical priesthood, showed that the priests were frail, dying creatures, not able to save their own lives, much less save the souls of those who came to them. But the High Priest of our profession holds His office by the power of eternal life in Himself; not only to keep Himself alive, but to give spiritual and eternal life to all who rely upon his sacrifice and intercession.

Bob, The Blood of Christ was offered one time. We are "Saved" one time. A Christian can never be Saved one day and lost the next,
Heb 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an open shame.

Bob, the word "enlightened" (phōtizō) means, made to see. Notice also, "partakers of the Holy Ghost", who is that speaking of? Are the lost partakers of the Holy Ghost? Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. NO!
To correctly interpret these verses one would have to believe that Christ died one time for sin. A person will accept the gift of Salvation one time and because the Lord Jesus can not lie, Tit 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, He told us that He will not cast us out. Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. Bob, to say otherwise you have to take Scripture out of context and/or twist Scripture to say it means what you want it to say. I don't know if you have had any formal Bible training or not but sometimes that does help us to explain Scripture correctly. As it has been pointed out to you sometimes there are other meanings to the same word in the Bible. It depends where it is used. We need to be careful we don't interpret Scripture as we were taught as a young fellow, right or wrong. I was Saved as a young fellow in a "Church of God." I was raised washing feet, no Eternal Security etc. However after years of diligently studying the Bible I saw the fallacy of that and now I am a BAPTIST. Not because I like the word Baptist but because I believe they hold to the correct interpretation of Scripture. I get "short" :laugh: sometimes with people that "I" believe are deliberately trying to destroy the TRUTH of the scriptures such as the SDA! However I believe you are just interpreting some Scripture incorrectly. You should take your Bible and read over these posts both and I think you will see this differently. shiloh

 

[Brother Bob]

Bob, The Blood of Christ was offered one time. We are "Saved" one time. A Christian can never be Saved one day and lost the next,
Heb 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an open shame.

Bob, the word "enlightened" (phōtizō) means, made to see. Notice also, "partakers of the Holy Ghost", who is that speaking of? Are the lost partakers of the Holy Ghost

You answered you own question and if those who are made partaker of the Holy Ghost, commits the things that keep them out of Heaven, then it is impossible to renew them to repentance again.

If it were "possible". That is why He said "My Grace is sufficient to keep thee. We are kept by the power of God and we don't do those things.

 

[Brother Bob]

Bob, dear friend. What do you believe our Lord Jesus accomplished on the cross for us? Do you believe he just paid for those sins which we committed in our past, up until our conversion? Or are we covered by his blood for those sins that we might commit in the future, albeit ignorantly? I just need to know what you believe on this matter of what Christ actually accomplished on the cross? What you are saying still seems unclear to me.

I am saying what the following scripture says.

1 Cor 6
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

I am saying this.

Romans 6:
10: For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11: Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12: Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13: Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14: For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15: What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16: Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17: But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18: Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Because you are dead to sin, does not mean you can sin, God forbid.

I am saying He not only paid for our sins, but is able through His Grace to keep us.

As the scriptures say, if you lend your members to sin, then you are the servant of sin and the devil.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Not all who come to Jesus will be saved, look at the one who came to Jesus running... he went away sad.

Many think they can make a profession of faith and hold onto sin... they are mistaken.

Many will appear to be Christians because of outward show, when inwardly, they are filthy.

Many receive the Word with joy but are choked out by cares of this world... they truly were not rooted in Christ... not His.

The long and the short of it is God's Word stands forever. Yes, He is able to save indefinitely. But many who appear to be saved, are not.

The Word clearly says that a good tree cannot bear evil fruit. The true Christian will not commit abominable acts just prior to death. One who professes to be a Christian that commits abominable acts prior to death is just revealing he was not a Christian, but that he was doing the work of his father the devil.

And DHK, you can keep on believing that every man is a liar if you wish, but you are taking that verse out of context.

Look at this verse:

Psalms 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

Here, David says the wicked speak lies as soon as they are born. Have you ever heard an newborn infant tell a lie? Of course not! There is another meaning to this verse Just as there is a different meaning to the verse you are using to say we are all liars.

If we are all liars, then we all will end up in the lake of fire.

 

[Shiloh]

Bob, Looking at your picture I now understand! Those arn't your arms sticking out at your side, they are your wings. You are a perfect angel...right. :saint: You are telling us that God can keep you from sin...........you know who you are fooling? YOU!

Do you have kids? Do or did they ever do something that you didn't like or heaven forbid....sin? What did you do? Deny they were ever born? That's just what you are telling us God does.

1. Your kids know better!
2. I would be willing to bet you don't have many young people in your church!

Buddy, you better do more Bible study! You are some messed up on Bible doctrine.

 

[Shiloh]

Here, David says the wicked speak lies as soon as they are born. Have you ever heard an newborn infant tell a lie? Of course not! There is another meaning to this verse Just as there is a different meaning to the verse you are using to say we are all liars.by the bird


Man you are crazy! Do you have kids? Did they ever wake you in the middle of the night screaming like some one was tearing their arm off? When you went ripping into the room they stopped and smiled.
Man, you better go back to the Methodist church in Mt. Nebo for further instruction.

 

[Brother Bob]

Buddy, you better do more Bible study! You are some messed up on Bible doctrine.

I hear you blowing but no answers:


1 Cor 6
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Romans 6:
10: For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11: Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12: Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13: Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14: For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15: What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16: Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17: But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18: Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Hebrews, chapter 6

"4": For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

"5": And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

"6": If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jo 5:18 ¶ We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
1Jo 3:10 ¶ In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
12: Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13: Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14: For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15: What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16: Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

what time I am studying you give these a study yourself.

This one you all break big time.
15: What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.