Abu Mazen

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Now that he has been elected in a fair and free election, he must be held accountable by the rest of the world in the way he leads. I would not allow him the legitimacy of meeting with President Bush or recieving any support unless he proves that he is willing to confront the terrorists among his people, make the atmosphere safe for free speech among all the Palestinian people, and spend some of his government's money on improving his people's living conditions (medical facility improvments, etc...). The level of Democratic and human rights reforms should determine the level of legitimacy and support that is given to Abbas. We must not repeat the mistakes of Oslo.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[LadyEagle]

But we will. So far, indicators suggest he will follow in the steps of Arafat. His own history has been involved in terrorist acts, even though he is considered by the Bush White House as a "moderate."

 

[KenH]

I am mot that familiar with the Mr. Abbas except for recently. Could you provide some proof from an objective source that he has been involved in terrorist acts, LE?

I am quite hopeful that the move to democracy by the Palestinians will eventually result in a two State solution.

 

[JGrubbs]

Abbas has consistently opposed the idea of using the Palestinian security forces to stop terrorism. Even though this is an absolute requirement of the misguided U.S. peace roadmap, Abbas said he has no intention of upholding the commitment.
Many have heard the story of how Abbas, as a doctoral candidate at Moscow's Oriental College in 1982, wrote a thesis suggesting far fewer than 6 million Jews were killed in the Holocaust. But, Abbas did much more than that. He actually accused the Jews of conspiring with Adolph Hitler to annihilate European Jewry. He accused the Jews of deliberately inflating the numbers of those killed in concentration camps to pave the way for a Jewish state. He may have been one of the first to equate Zionism with Nazism.

"The Zionist movement's stake in inflating the number of murdered in the war was aimed at ensuring great gains," he wrote, adding that "this led to confirm the number [6 million] to establish it in world opinion, and, by so doing, to arouse more pangs of conscience and sympathy for Zionism in general."

In the version of his doctoral paper later published under the title, "The Other Side: The Secret Relationship Between Nazism and the Zionist Movement," Abbas denied the German use of gas chambers and suggested the total number of Jews killed was fewer than 1 million.

Source: WorldNetDaily

 

[JGrubbs]

According to PA presidential candidate Abdelhaleem Ashqar who ran against Abbas:

"In some respects, Abbas holds certain different perspectives from Arafat, but he was clearly elected as a continuation of Arafat. Abbas emphasized the same things as Arafat – a final settlement with no less than the entire West Bank, Gaza, East Jerusalem, the right of return for all refugees. And when it comes to the economy and actual reform and democratization of the Palestinian Authority, Abbas is as bad as Arafat. There will be no change. No transparency, or separation of powers. No democracy. Just more of the same."

Soruce: WorldNetDaily

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Bump.

I want to keep this in everyone's mind, especially the OP of this thread. I hope that Bush will confront Abu Mazen and put pressure on him to bring about democratic and human rights reforms to his people before he is given any support or legitimacy. I am still hopeful that Bush will not repeat the failed policies of Oslo.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Today, Israel cut off all relations with the PA until they take action against the militants. The United States should do the same thing.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[church mouse guy]

That, my friend, is why there should never be a Palestinian state. Those in the Bank should be encouraged to sell out. Gaza should be forced back to the control of Egypt. There should be no such thing as the right of return. Mrs. Arafat spends $100,000 a month the press reports. She should be forced to return all of the money her husband stole. She should have to live on French welfare checks.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

I disagree that there should never be a Palestinian State. If we will confront and pressure tha PA to reject the terrorists, and bring about more democratic and human rights reforms in exchange for their own state, I believe we could have peace over there. But, if we repeat the mistakes of Oslo and give them everything they want without anything in return, then there will never be peace over there.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Bro. Curtis]

46 Palestinian Election Officials Resign

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

From the same article:

The resignations raised questions about Sunday's vote giving Abbas an overwhelming victory with 62.3 percent, though the officials who quit said the alleged irregularities did not fundamentally affect the final vote tally.

 

[church mouse guy]

Egypt
Iraq
Jordan
Lebanon
Saudi Arabia
Syria
Yemen
Libya
Sudan
Morocco
Tunisia
Kuwait
Algeria
United Arab Emirates
Bahrain
Qatar
Oman
Mauritania
Somalia
Djibouti
Comoros

These are the states of the Arab League, which stretches from the Persian Gulf across Africa to the Atlantic Ocean. Once I compiled a list of the number of people in the Arab League states and the total land mass of the Arab League. Having misplaced the list, I think that the population is about twice that of the USA and the area about three times that of the USA.

To that powerful mix, we want to add another Arab state? No! Gaza cannot support a state and neither can a broke US and a Europe saddled with welfare states and high taxes. Life on Gaza is not self-supporting. The Bank towns are going to be surrounded by high walls and the Gaza will be walled off.

It is time to find another home for the Arabs who squat in Israel. Those who own property should be compensated. Those who don't should be made refugees to another Arab state.

Bush should do nothing (to help a Palestinian state)--it should be natural for him to do nothing.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
From the same article:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> The resignations raised questions about Sunday's vote giving Abbas an overwhelming victory with 62.3 percent, though the officials who quit said the alleged irregularities did not fundamentally affect the final vote tally.

</font>[/QUOTE]Whaddya 'spect them to say ? I assume these people want to stay attatched to their heads.

Well, it should all be on the up & up if Jimmy Carter's there overseein' everything.

 

[LadyEagle]

You are exactly right on, CMG!

 

[KenH]

Gaza and the West Bank and East Jerusalem should comprise the independent country of Palestine. That is what needs to be worked toward diplomatically.

 

[LadyEagle]

I disagree. The map says it all.

Abu Mazen aka Mahmoud Abbas aka financer of terrorism is a loser. But he's the Bush pick.....

Today's news...

Mahmoud Abbas sworn in as Palestinian Authority president
RAMALLAH, West Bank (AP) — Mahmoud Abbas was sworn in as Palestinian Authority president Saturday and started his job with two crises: Israel cut contacts with him until he reins in militants and 46 election officials resigned amid allegations of irregularities in the vote that brought him to power.

USA Today

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Originally posted by KenH:
Gaza and the West Bank and East Jerusalem should comprise the independent country of Palestine. That is what needs to be worked toward diplomatically.

Isn't that the same deal Clinton brokered ? That Arafat walked out on ?

I'm not saying it's a bad idea. I wish it could happen. But I'm not betting on it.

 

[KenH]

I knew you would disagree, LE, but my hope is to see peace in that region, not carry out Christian Zionism.

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by Bro. Curtis:
That Arafat walked out on?

And Arafat will go down in history as a fool for doing so.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Ken,

You are correct, sir. The only addition I would add is that the only way to make this work is if there is reciprocity included as part of the deal (i.e.: Abu Mazen disarms the terrorists, Israel gives a little bit of land, Abu Mazen brings about human rights reforms, Israel gives a little of what they PA wants, Abu Mazen bring about democratic reforms, Israel gives them a little more of what they want). IOW, the Palestinians should be forced to bring about democratic and human rights reforms among their people before they are given that state. And, we definitely should not repeat the mistakes of Oslo.

Joseph Botwinick