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ACLU threatens, students still recite prayer

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Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
"The ACLU had actually threatened the school that they would be in trouble with the court if any student or any kind of religious message was given at this particular graduation. They did not want any student to say anything religious, or no prayer," he explains. "The students would not take this sitting down, and they decided to fight back."

The ACLU contends that something should have been done to stop the students from reciting the Lord's Prayer. Staver says his organization will defend any students if action is taken against them.

More Here
 
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windcatcher

New Member
carpro said:
Good for them. :applause:
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Please pray for our schools and a successful and God honoring resolution to the difficulties which the ACLU is sponsoring in attacking Christian youth in our communtiy and schools. While I understand that the schools cannot promote a particular religion.... Our first ammendment rights should not be violated and should exist there as anywhere. This is the character of the community in which I live which is being represented by these courageous students. Were it any other expression by a minority group.... religious or ethnic..... it would be likewise respected and tolerated as free speech in my community..... even if a majority existed which did not agree...... as long as it is free speech (barring, of course, the profane and obscene).

I live in Pace and am very proud of the unity and courage in our Christian youth which crosses all lines of demarcation of papal vs protestantism, and denominational lines. It is an encouragement to us older folk to witness the zeal and energy of our youth: Please pray that God will deepen the personal faith in each of our young people and give them more encouraging experiences in being Daniels in our times!
 
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windcatcher

New Member
Magnetic Poles said:
If folks want prayer in school, go to a private school. The public ones belong to everyone, not just Christians.
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The free exercise of faith also goes everywhere. Students are still people and as graduating seniors.... are considered young adults for the purposes of voting, criminal law, s@xual consent, and military conscription.... should it return. It is hypocritical to hold an event, "in their honor and for their recognition' and to pretend that they can have a part in choosing what is inspiring to them ....... and then censor their choice because it doesn't agree with a group like the ACLU and less than a handful of objectors!

A child wearing moslem garb, because it is part of his family's belief is not restricted. A Jewish child wearing .... what ever they call that small prayer hat.... would not be excluded. A child who brings a request that he be allowed to participate in a prayer ritual according to his religion at certain hours of the day, would not be censored from doing so..... why is it now wrong for a spontaneous student prayer which lasts less than 30 seconds.... What law does it break?

God gave all law which is good. What law does this break of God's law?

It is under God's authority which your freedom and my freedom is preserved.... and by the exercise of that freedom that it is tested and reaffirmed.

Our forefathers knew that government doesnot exist to protect the rights of free people, nor can they be made to do so.... so they put the government into our own hands and in their writings extolled the benefits of the Christian religion as necessary for the preservation of values which uphold the freedom and rights of all free men... Christian or not, to govern themselves. But some, like you, would prefer that our freedoms be restricted.... and what you think would only apply to others.... will someday return upon you and bite you in your rear..... but then who will speak for you, once the rights to speak are taken away from those who would be your strongest ally?

If it is man's law which you feel the students have broken..... then aren't you saying that we should rather obey man than God? God forbid! Should we not rather obey God than man? And how can you, being distant of this, set yourself up to judge whether or not the student's were obeying God?
 
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abcgrad94

Active Member
I seriously doubt the ACLU didn't want ANY religious prayer or message. If these kids had recited something from the Koran I'm sure the ACLU would have turned a deaf ear. Christianity is the ONLY "religion" I've ever heard of that organization protesting.
 
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Magnetic Poles

New Member
windcatcher said:
If it is man's law which you feel the students have broken..... then aren't you saying that we should rather obey man than God?
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I recall scripture saying we are to obey civil authorities. I don't recall seeing scripture proscribing a spoken prayer in public schools.
 
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Magnetic Poles

New Member
abcgrad94 said:
I seriously doubt the ACLU didn't want ANY religious prayer or message. If these kids had recited something from the Koran I'm sure the ACLU would have turned a deaf ear. Christianity is the ONLY "religion" I've ever heard of that organization protesting.
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It isn't hard to prove your supposition incorrect. CLICK HERE
 
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Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Magnetic Poles said:
If folks want prayer in school, go to a private school. The public ones belong to everyone, not just Christians.
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Do you mean the same public schools that started out praying and using the Bible as the only text book as well as did not allow evolution?
 
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Magnetic Poles

New Member
Revmitchell said:
Do you mean the same public schools that started out praying and using the Bible as the only text book as well as did not allow evolution?
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We have come a long way, and are a pluralistic society. Would you approve of the Quran as the only text book? The country also used to allow slaves to be owned. Do I dare ask if you would like that back as well?
 
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RevGKG

Member
Magnetic Poles said:
I recall scripture saying we are to obey civil authorities. I don't recall seeing scripture proscribing a spoken prayer in public schools.
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So if the civil authorities outlawed church assembly, or the ownership of a Bible, would you still obey civil authorities?
 
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Allan

Active Member
Magnetic Poles said:
Slippery slope fallacy. That is not even on the table.
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Actaully it isn't but that aside.

Our civil authorities have provided the means to keep themselves in check from over-reaching their bounds with respect to certain rights that are to be and remain guarenteed to it's people - at least till we become another government. One of those rights is freedom of speach.

Secondly, there is nothing in the First Amendment which states nor implies "seperation of Church and State". What it states is:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
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The government can make no law establishing a certain religion as the only religion or government sanctioned religion. Other than that there is nothing there - nothing. With the exception that religions are not allowed, by the government, to be supressed from speaking or believing what they choose where ever they choose to.

Robert L. Cord accurately describes the intention of the religion clause in the First Amendment as such:
"[R]egarding religion, the First Amendment was intended to accomplish three purposes. First, it was intended to prevent the establishment of a national church or religion, or the giving of any religious sect or denomination a preferred status. Second, it was designed to safeguard the right of freedom of conscience in religious beliefs against invasion solely by the national Government. Third, it was so constructed in order to allow the States, unimpeded, to deal with religious establishments and aid to religious institutions as they saw fit."
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It was not written, as many pretend and make-up, to not allow Christianity (or in fact other religious ideas) from influencing (not dictating) state-established institutions. Say Christian because we are the main and practially only group singled out. However it is of note that in studying our founding fathers views and public statements that they seemingly expected our nation to be (on the whole) Christian, and our government, their speaches, and actions reflect that bias, but did not support any particular church nor demonmination thereof.
 
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Alcott

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Magnetic Poles said:
I recall scripture saying we are to obey civil authorities. I don't recall seeing scripture proscribing a spoken prayer in public schools.
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Do you condemn the actions of Martin Luther King when he refused to obey civil authorities? and then when he expected others in disagreement therewith to obey them after the laws changed?

And scripture proscribes nothing-- in support of, or in prohibition of-- what goes on in public schools. Nor private schools either.
 
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Andy T.

Active Member
Magnetic Poles said:
We have come a long way, and are a pluralistic society. Would you approve of the Quran as the only text book? The country also used to allow slaves to be owned. Do I dare ask if you would like that back as well?
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Wow, did I just see you ascribe [im]moral equivalency between prayer/Bible reading and owning slaves?
 
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abcgrad94

Active Member
Magnetic Poles said:
It isn't hard to prove your supposition incorrect. CLICK HERE
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Thank you, MP. That is the first instance of such I've ever read!

While we as Christians are all for prayer in public schools, we sometimes forget that to be constitutional, we would have to allow ANY prayer, not just one to Jesus. That means, technically, that devil worshippers could pray to the devil and Hindus could pray to Buddah, etc. I certainly wouldn't want to see that!
 
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Magnetic Poles

New Member
abcgrad94 said:
Thank you, MP. That is the first instance of such I've ever read!

While we as Christians are all for prayer in public schools, we sometimes forget that to be constitutional, we would have to allow ANY prayer, not just one to Jesus. That means, technically, that devil worshippers could pray to the devil and Hindus could pray to Buddah, etc. I certainly wouldn't want to see that!
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Yes, and THAT is one reason I am a strong proponent of the concept of separating religion and government.
 
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