Acts 1:9-11 utterly refutes Hyper-preterism

This old saw. I personally have written on this several times. I just woke up, but I can start by pointing out an error in one sentence of yours (one of many), the part I underlined.

"and a cloud received him out of their sight.
And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up..." vss. 9-10

Two events here:
1. A cloud received Him out of their sight. He became invisible.
2. They were still looking as He continued going up.

Your comment (underlining mine):"They had been looking up as the Lord rose and remained looking (open-mouthed, no doubt) after He disappeared."
flatly contradicts what Scripture says. But, like your "for example" additions in the Luke passage in an earlier thread, they are suggested by your theology, not by the text.

So, the second part of His going was invisible. And it was during His invisible ascending that the angels gave their assurance. A very reasonable assumption is that the invisibility itself was a part of their description of His return.

I don't know what could be clearer than this.

 

If you want to be taken seriously don't deign to be a mind-reader and say that I am "desperate". Aside from being rude - which I expect from you as a matter of course - it adds nothing to your credibility in the eyes of others who are reading this. Neither was I "obfuscating".

I spent 30+ years with your view (at least in its basic features) until I finally just did some study in the Word and came to my conclusion. When I came to this conclusion (Preterism) it was a wonderful relief, not desperation. Suddenly a whole group of verses finally fit perfectly well with each other.

 

You read my posts very haphazardly. You are one of those persons where I have to laboriously phrase everything in precise words in order not to be misconstrued. I should have written some thing like "While I had indeed been studying the Bible for thirty years, it was with an admixture of other Bible "helps" which tended to negate what I was seeing in the Bible itself".

But my second option is just to ignore your willful puerilities and move on to others who have basic respect, who know how to disagree without being disagreeable.

 

[This message is hidden because Martin Marprelate is on your ignore list. ]

This topic itself is an important one and I welcome further comment from others. The vast majority of futurists here have been pretty respectful, and I will strive to be the same.

 

As a "hyper preterist", how do you see God consummating the world and his plan for it? In other words, how does God achieve new creation?

 

The Lord jesus will be returning in the SAME Body that he resurrected in...

Jesus died , was resurrected in the SAME body that he died in upon the Cross, and was raised glorified, God-man!

We will all see Him, and become changed into what he now is, forever gloroed, same bodies born with/in, now put on immortality!

 

As a Hyper Preterist? Hmm. I can't answer as one of those.

As a Full Preterist I would say that God's consummation of the world has already happened. That is, if I understand your use of the term. It would be helpful if you would just give me a passage to connect your question with.

But the answer should be twofold, on a global and on a personal level. I believe we are already in the new creation, the New Heavens and New Earth. The Heavenly Jerusalem is already here and is constantly growing in size.

"Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel."

On the personal level, when we die we are ever with the Lord.

If any man is in Christ he is a new creation.

 

Adding to Scripture. Nowhere does it say this.

Agreed.

No. We will not be changed into bodies that are in any way physical. The passage that you could have quoted is the one in 1 Cor. 15:47-49

1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

We shall bear Christ's image. How is Christ's image described here? "The Lord from heaven".

What was Christ like when He was the Lord from Heaven? Well, we know that He definitely did not have a physical body.

This is the Christ we will be like.

Futurists speak much about being like Christ, but they really seem to be concerned about having Christ be like us.

 

Hmm, I'm just wondering...

This is a question for any full preterist willing to answer (and I'm a little confused about some of the statements here by the same):

It has been admited that Christ was resurrected in the same body in which He died.

Here is the question: Is Christ currently in the same body in which He died while He is presently in heaven?

If not, what happened to that body.

But if so, and He is the firstfruits of the resurrection then doesn't it follow that we the remainder of the harvest will have bodies of the same nature as the firstfruit?

But if all has happened then the preterist position must be that all that are going to be resurrected have been resurrected.

Now I do not believe this to be true being a futurist so please don't say that I believe I have missed the resurrection.

1 Corinthians 15

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (In AD70?)
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.​

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.​

I was not here in AD70 so am I disqualified from this passage as well?

HankD​

 

Christ was resurrected bodily. After the ascension there was no need for Him to have a physical body, so He didn't. The only purpose for Christ taking on human form was to redeem us. His "being found in fashion as a man" was part of the necessary humiliation involved in our redemption. We have a hard time seeing this because we are too close to our physicality.

No. See above.

I have no idea.

Like I wrote just above this post, we have an important indication of what our bodies will be like from 1 Cor. 15:47-49:

1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

We shall bear Christ's image. How is Christ's image described here? "The Lord from heaven".

We shall bear the image of the Lord from Heaven.

What was Christ like when He was the Lord from Heaven? Well, we know that He definitely did not have a physical body.

This is the Christ we will be like.

The passage is clear. It does not say:
We shall bear the image of the Incarnated Lord, or
We shall be like the Son of David.

It clearly describes His nature by His origin.
Heaven.
Heavenly.
Not physical.

I don't get how you say this. At any rate, this will have to do for now.

 

Tom

It seems to me that if life on earth is to continue for an unlimited time then God will have to intervene in some manner before man will be able to survive.

As I see it the big problem is energy. It may be possible that man will eventually develop a source of energy required but it is not a certainty.

 

Jesus in the Incarnation did something BRAND NEW...

God the Son became a Man, forever more God/Humanity linked as One being...

he is the High priest, who took his very blood unto the heavenly temple itself for offering, as per hebrews...

Jesus still has his scars/woundings, he is the God-man, he will return in glory as the SAME bodily being that he was raised up as...

IF you hold to him discarding theresurrected body in heaven...

Close to JW, who view Jesus as spiritually resurrected and spiritually returned in 1914!

 

Apostle paul stated that we will indeed have 'spiritual bodies" in the resurrection, John says that we will become as he now is...

Spiritual contrasted with the earthly by paul...

So physical earthly body will be replaced by glorifed physical body, who creation was/is "heavenly"

Contrasting earth and heaven, both still physical bodily forms!

 

To be honest, OR, I don't really know how that would play out. I just take at face-value those several verses that say the earth abides forever. I don't pretend to understand how all this works out. However I do believe that there are no prophecies that require fulfillment.

I am aware of the energy problem. To me that does not seem that insurmountable, seeing that our technology should eventually provide the answers here. But this is all guesswork on my part.

 

Not one single rebuttal of verses that I brought up. Just the same old "You are just like a JW" attack.

Really original - and totally without foundation.