Alive once

[Amy.G]

Their concious was a law unto them and their youth were without that Godly concious, so they also were not accountable.
This does not include Paul though, for the Law was around his entire life, but yet he was alive without it, (his youth). When the Law did come it brought forth sin and death.

It just shows that God never held the very young accountable, before the Law was ever in existence, or after. For there is a Spirit in man that teacheth him right from wrong. Right has always been right and wrong has always been wrong, Before men's concious made it known, later the Law made it know. It would be hard to find one of the Laws, that was not in existance in the concious of man, long before the Law was written on a tablet.

I mean, Cain slew Abel "thou shalt not kill", the day you eat thereof, thou shalt not surely die, "thou shalt not lie", Sodom and Gormorah.

"You must be born again". The soul that sinneth shall die, and to escape the second death, "You must be born again".

It is dead in sin, away from God, which is a sure ticket to the Lake of Fire, unless it is born again. In the LoF, it will die and never die in torment.

How could a soul die, if it is born dead.



BBob,

:thumbs: .......................

 

[skypair]

John is speaking of the fulfillment of that second death that came up a man when he sinned.

Umm, not in Rev 20:12-14 that is not what it means. In Rev 20:12-14 (which is the only place I can find the term described as to its meaning), the lost are resurrected bodily to the GWT. They are judged and cast into the LoF which, being fire, kills the body but not the eternal soul and spirit.

Now if you are merely saying that we "get burned" everytime we sin in a similar manner -- yeah, I can see that. But the "second death" itself is a one-time event.

skypair

 

[Brother Bob]

Umm, not in Rev 20:12-14 that is not what it means. In Rev 20:12-14 (which is the only place I can find the term described as to its meaning), the lost are resurrected bodily to the GWT. They are judged and cast into the LoF which, being fire, kills the body but not the eternal soul and spirit.

Now if you are merely saying that we "get burned" everytime we sin in a similar manner -- yeah, I can see that. But the "second death" itself is a one-time event.

skypair

It is the price for all our sins, we committed while here in this life. Jesus said, the words I speak, shall judge you in the last day. The second death is the ultimate price.

BBob,

 

[skypair]

Notice Nicodemus' response to Jesus when Jesus said "You must be born again". Nicodemus replied "Can a man enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?" This shows that the first birth is physical and the second birth is spiritual.

That is a different way to read Nicodemus' words. So you are saying that the spirit and soul are "still-born?" That we either weren't born with a spirit and soul or that we were "brain dead" from birth? Cause the brain is where most of those functions that make us alive reside, swaim.

Also, I must ask: When Paul says that he was alive before the law, does that mean he was without sin? I don't see how that can be since Paul says earlier in Romans 2:12, "For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law". This shows that men are sinners whether they have the law or not.

Couple of things wrong with your comparison:

1) Rom 2:12 is NOT talking about babies and the guilt or innocence of persons before they knew the law. Read the context and see that he is comparing Jews with Gentiles as to how they will be judged.

2) Rom 2 is an indictment of the Jews (who have the law) vs. Rom 1 indictment of the Gentiles (who didn't). So again, infants (those incapable of knowing the law) and the issue of "innate sin," as you see it, are not in view at all here. In Rom 3, Paul concludes that all who have "heard" are sinners and Rom 4 speaks of the struggle of people who have heard with sin and salvation.

The simple truth, swaim, is that if one was born with a dead spirit and soul, the body would be dead too. We call it a "miscarriage" or "still born" when the fetus comes out dead, sir. There is either a viable, living birth or a completely dead "still birth."

skypair

 

[skypair]

It would be hard to find one of the Laws, that was not in existance in the concious of man, long before the Law was written on a tablet.

I like this. It is true. It is a demonstration of the LIVING soul that it KNOWS about God without ever hearing the law.

It is also true, as James tells us, that the soul that rejects God in just one sin is dead. See, this is amazing because it doesn't mean that God quits appealing to our souls or that we can't hear Him anymore. It simply means that He deals with us as with "dead men" and as "children of disobedience" as "unjust." He requires that we reestablish a spiritually innocent relationship (Mt 18:3 -- "Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." ) with Him through Christ which is what we call being "born again."

skypair

 

[skypair]

Nicodemus did not understand what it meant to be born again, but surely he know what it meant to be born. To be born is to be born physically. If not, then what is the first birth?

Here's "the gouge" (at least, that's what pilots call "the skinny") on that. :laugh:

Nicodemus should have known what "born again" means to a believing Jew in Israel. It meant that one day after they died they would come again into this world through the resurrection of the Spirit (Job 19:25-26, etal.). Born again" on the earth into Messiah's MK.

Now what Jesus alludes to in John 3 is similar -- only the "born again" that we understand is being "resurrected" from living bodies into spiritual ones (1Cor 15:29, 35). Paul calls them bodies of "terrestrial glory" (1Cor 15:38-40) from which we will be raptured soon into bodies of "celestial glory." Too bad Nicodemus couldn't hear that discourse from Paul, eh?

skypair

 

[swaimj]

I asked this question and, since then, everyone involved in this thread has answered me, but no one addressed this question. Here it is again:

... what is the first birth?

BTW, Happy 4th of July to all!

 

[skypair]

It is the price for all our sins, we committed while here in this life. Jesus said, the words I speak, shall judge you in the last day. The second death is the ultimate price.

Let's go over to Rev 20:15 and see if that is true. "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." See -- it wasn't their sin or "works" after all that destined them to the lake of fire. It was the fact that they never believed. That IS how we get into the "book of life," is it not?

skypair

 

[skypair]

"...what is the first birth."

It is the conception of a living body, soul, and spirit in the womb.

It is your theology that apparently keeps you from seeing this.

Happy fourth back at yah!

skypair

 

[Rippon]

It was the fact that they never believed. That IS how we get into the "book of life," is it not?

skypair

Our names were written in the Lamb's Book of Life before the foundation of the world.We believe because the Lord gets His own. He brings them to Himself -- He draws them and does the Romans 8:29-30 number on them.

 

[Brother Bob]

Let's go over to Rev 20:15 and see if that is true. "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." See -- it wasn't their sin or "works" after all that destined them to the lake of fire. It was the fact that they never believed. That IS how we get into the "book of life," is it not?

skypair

Unbelief is sin Sky!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

I asked this question and, since then, everyone involved in this thread has answered me, but no one addressed this question. Here it is again:

BTW, Happy 4th of July to all!

It is the conception of a living body, soul, and spirit in the womb.

It is your theology that apparently keeps you from seeing this.

Happy fourth back at yah!

skypair

I agree with sky.

BTW Happy 4th to you and your family and all BB.

 

[Brother Bob]

Our names were written in the Lamb's Book of Life before the foundation of the world.We believe because the Lord gets His own. He brings them to Himself -- He draws them and does the Romans 8:29-30 number on them.

I just wonder why the Lord said I would not blot their names out of the Lamb's book of life.

Jhn 12:32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me.

Rev 3:5He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

BBob,

 

[MB]

Let's go over to Rev 20:15 and see if that is true. "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." See -- it wasn't their sin or "works" after all that destined them to the lake of fire. It was the fact that they never believed. That IS how we get into the "book of life," is it not?

skypair

If this is so then you should be able to show with scripture just how true it is.
MB