An E-Mail To The Editor

[HAMel]

I had a subscription to a monthly Christian newspaper that carried many sermons with each edition. I began to notice that each "by line" had been preached by the Reverend, Dr., Joe Smith; or Dr., James Jones, Phd, D.D.; or otherwise a name accompanied by the alphabet in one form or the other.

So, I e-mailed the editor of this newspaper asking if they ever published any sermons by a Pastor? I explained that I nere' did get much "edumacation" but I was able to follow a down to earth Pastor.

Needless to say, my e-mail brought a swift rebuttal along with a mild scolding as there really wasn't anything wrong with a man having various degrees along with letting it be known to the world of such accomplishments.

George Washington Carver once said, “When I was young, I said to God, 'God, tell me the mystery of the universe.' But God answered, 'That knowledge is for me alone.' So I said, 'God, tell me the mystery of the peanut.' Then God said, 'Well George, that's more nearly your size.' And he told me.”

Needless to say Carver was a very humble individual, extremely intelligent and contributed much to a society who at the time had no use for blacks. A very brave man to say the least.

Personally, I have no problem with a fine education but I do take exception to any man who stands before a church and begins to either preach, or writes book after book attempting to explain the mysteries that is for the Lord alone. As if they have an insight no other possess and for this, more respect should be forth-coming.

Considering 1 Corinthians 1:20, Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

I'm not attempting to be super critical here but whatever happened to that Old Time Gospel Message?

 

[mandym]

Your post is rather vague and makes no specific connection from the education of a man to trying to speak where God has not. If I misunderstood your post help please.

 

[HAMel]

Yes, perhaps it is a big vague. By not possessing the skills of an accomplished writer (an Ernest Hemingway, if you will) I sometimes lack in getting a point across.

For clarity let me refer to the elated position of the Scribes and Pharisees. They were a bit lofty. Over and above all the serfs. Professing to be wise they became....,

His name escapes me right now but have you ever listened to "The Truck Drivers Special"? He's passed away now but that guy could deliver a Gospel Message that was so truthful and down to earth that even..., even a Truck Driver could understand it. :laugh: You know what I mean. A Coal Miner could have grabbed a hold of it.

Stuffed shirts with the alphabet behind their name often leave a lot to be desired. Fine to have that kind of education but don't become so lofty you can't bring yourself down to communicate with the average rank and file.

...this help any?

 

[mandym]

Your vagueness is not from a lack of writing skills but from a lack of specifics with regards to your comlaint i.e:

writes book after book attempting to explain the mysteries that is for the Lord alone. As if they have an insight no other possess and for this, more respect should be forth-coming.

 

[nodak]

HAMel--I think I get what you are saying, maybe.

I've had excellent pastors that had excellent earned doctorates. And once had a guy with a D. Min. that obviously shopped for a seminary that gave it without due study.

But, truthfully, I found far more knowledge of the scriptures and of our Lord in the old farmers, housewives, truckers, oilfield workers, etc that had a lifetime soaked in the Word.

Those folks were far more capable in the field of leading folks to the Lord and seeing lives changed.

I think maybe the push for a educated clergy stems sometimes from the desire to see it be a profession with professional level compensation.

As for me, I'd much rather hear someone the Lord has compelled to preach even if he has to make his living on the side. He can stomp my toes better since his house payment doesn't depending on his pleasing my itching ears.

 

[HAMel]

Yep, NODAK, you caught on.

I had an Aunt in West Virginia that had a tremendous impact on my life long before I ever accepted the Lord. There was just something different about her and I can still remember specific instances of her insights. She had no degrees what so ever. Only the Spirit of the Lord.

This was back in the 1950's.

Her and her husband had nothing, all the while they had everything they needed. I can remember her driving an old beat-up straight bed log truck to town to buy what groceries they could afford. Her husband had been poisoned at the Chemical Plant he worked for and back then, perhaps he received about $20.00 a month in compensation. Both were as happy as could be with what they had.

 

[BobinKy]

HAMel...

Thank you for your comments. My personal view--there is no substitute for prayer and Bible study.

...Bob

 

[HAMel]

It's recorded in Matt 21:13, It is written: "My house shall be called the house of ________ Fill in the blank.

He didn't say "My house shall be called the house of music; or a house of song; or a house of programs; or a house of agenda; or a house of doctrine..., no, Jesus said that His House would be a House of PRAYER.

Of course, any church needs structure and a pastor that is capable and otherwise learned, along with deacons that are able and capable.

In Mark 1:21/22, Jesus went straightway and entered into the synagogue, and taught". I doubt He went in slinking around by the edge of the wall to sit down behind someone larger than him to remain out of sight. No, I suspect that Jesus went straight down the isle as if the Red Sea was being parted again.

...and then, in v 22, "They were astonished at His doctrine: for he taught them as one that had authority, and not as the scribes.

Jesus taught them as one that HAD authority. He did not teach FROM authority as the scribes did. Hey, no wonder all in attendance were all astonished.

How are believers and preachers and churches to receive this power of authority today? Through enhanced education? It would appear to me this power derives from prayer.

Nothing wrong with an education as long as it doesn't cause the educated one to function as a scribe.

 

[just-want-peace]

Nothing wrong with an education as long as it doesn't cause the educated one to function as a scribe.

BINGO!!

In too many instances, the more the education, the less the wisdom. In too many I said - not all!!!!

Best ole saw I've ever heard to describe the condition of the OP (as I interpreted it) is;

"He was/is educated beyond his intelligence."

If a man cannot ignore those letters following his name, and talk to a simple uneducated miner/farm hand/poor kid so as to be understood, then he's TOO educated for his intelligence!

The man that can ignore those letters, and do the above is never TOO educated.

 

[Old Union Brother]

This makes me think about what Paul wrote in Galations:

Gal 1:10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
Gal 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

If preaching brothers could keep that in mind the good Lord might just give a little more wisdom to them.

 

[freeatlast]

I had a subscription to a monthly Christian newspaper that carried many sermons with each edition. I began to notice that each "by line" had been preached by the Reverend, Dr., Joe Smith; or Dr., James Jones, Phd, D.D.; or otherwise a name accompanied by the alphabet in one form or the other.

So, I e-mailed the editor of this newspaper asking if they ever published any sermons by a Pastor? I explained that I nere' did get much "edumacation" but I was able to follow a down to earth Pastor.

Needless to say, my e-mail brought a swift rebuttal along with a mild scolding as there really wasn't anything wrong with a man having various degrees along with letting it be known to the world of such accomplishments.

George Washington Carver once said, “When I was young, I said to God, 'God, tell me the mystery of the universe.' But God answered, 'That knowledge is for me alone.' So I said, 'God, tell me the mystery of the peanut.' Then God said, 'Well George, that's more nearly your size.' And he told me.”

Needless to say Carver was a very humble individual, extremely intelligent and contributed much to a society who at the time had no use for blacks. A very brave man to say the least.

Personally, I have no problem with a fine education but I do take exception to any man who stands before a church and begins to either preach, or writes book after book attempting to explain the mysteries that is for the Lord alone. As if they have an insight no other possess and for this, more respect should be forth-coming.

Considering 1 Corinthians 1:20, Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

I'm not attempting to be super critical here but whatever happened to that Old Time Gospel Message?

While I agree that there might be a more rounded representation if there were those pastors who were not holding degrees it is clear by their response that they are not interested in well rounded representation. I would not make anything of it except to cancel my subscription.

 

[stilllearning]

Hello HAMel

I am going to bypass that “education issue” and go right to a more important subject.

You said......

“I have no problem with a fine education but I do take exception to any man who stands before a church and begins to either preach, or writes book after book attempting to explain the mysteries that is for the Lord alone. As if they have an insight no other possess and for this, more respect should be forth-coming.”

This is the second time that I have seen you make this statement, that seems very dangerous to me.

As a pastor, it’s my job to preach and teach God’s Word, where I “explain” to those listening, what a particular passage is teaching.
The idea that you seem to have about God’s Word, is that noone can “know” what it means. This is a lie, intended to deflect from it’s authority over us.
(If “noone” can know what it means, than it has no authority in my life.)

This is one of the more subtle attacks upon God’s Word, but it is an attack none the less.
--------------------------------------------------
Sure enough, there are mysteries in God’s Word: But this is why we study it......
Proverbs 25:2
“[It is] the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings [is] to search out a matter.”

 

[HAMel]

Hello HAMel

I am going to bypass that “education issue” and go right to a more important subject.

You said......


This is the second time that I have seen you make this statement, that seems very dangerous to me.

As a pastor, it’s my job to preach and teach God’s Word, where I “explain” to those listening, what a particular passage is teaching.
The idea that you seem to have about God’s Word, is that noone can “know” what it means. This is a lie, intended to deflect from it’s authority over us.
(If “noone” can know what it means, than it has no authority in my life.)

This is one of the more subtle attacks upon God’s Word, but it is an attack none the less.
--------------------------------------------------
Sure enough, there are mysteries in God’s Word: But this is why we study it......
Proverbs 25:2
“[It is] the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings [is] to search out a matter.”

No, stilllearning, I don't think you understand my post.

Jabez is mentioned only once in the Bible. I Chronicles 4:9-10. Give me the history on him. You can't. Anything you might provide about this guy would be pure speculation so don't offer something as factual when no one knows.

Needless to say, entire sermon's can be preached around what is provided in those two verses and how it applies to our lives today, but the rest about Jabez would be pure guessing.

 

[sag38]

Educational snobbery is always rearing its ugly head and it occurs from both sides. There's the I've got a degree crowd and then there's the I don't have one. Both nip away at each other. Hamel, I've heard folks with Ph'ds, MDiv's, etc., and folks without an "edumacation" preach what you call the "old timey" gospel very effectively. Funny, no where in the Bible is the gospel called "old timey." Here's my opinion and it's just my opinion. It seems that you are prideful about your supposed lack of education (many without a formal education have put untold hours into the gospel) and are jealous of those who supposedly are (many who have put untold hours into studying the "old timey" gospel in an academic setting for your and my benefit).

 

[sag38]

The reason I say education snobbery occurs from both sides is because of the opinions that some have expressed concerning Biblical languages. It has been suggested that no preacher should get in the pulpit without a working knowledge of the Biblical languages. Funny, no where in the scripture do I see that as being a necessity. Yet, this should be a requirement as far as some are concerned.

 

[HAMel]

sag38, do I detect a little sarcasm? I never made reference to that "old timey" gospel, as you put it. What I said was, "that Old Time Gospel Message".

A pastor should be well educated and study constantly. Even in my chosen profession I was constantly learning being sent for training, etc.

As I can see where some of this is going low and to the left I shall cease and desist with this topic. :wavey:

 

[J.D.]

The best preachers are educated. They may be self-educated in some cases, like CH Spurgeon, but none of the better preachers are uneducated.

 

[Gabriel Elijah]

Hammel—brother I don’t think this was ur intention—but ur OP did come across like this –“there goes those bad preachers again—what were they thinking wasten all that time on an education! They should have known that such nonsense as university accreditation would hinder their ability to listen to the good ol Holy Ghost! Maybe if they’d spent less time listen to well educated Christian professors & more time listen to brother Reverend Billy Bob—they could have actually been used by God! What a shame they went off & got an education like that & ruined their ability to be a good ol boy preacher!” Sorry-for the sarcasm brother—I’m sure that was not ur true intent—but I hear so many people on the BB act like a phd disqualifies one from being a Holy Spirit lead preacher, and I cant help but wonder where this distain for education comes from? I apologize if this seemed like I was railing on you—b/c I wasn’t—just on the notion that education is somehow bad-

 

[HAMel]

Gabriel Elijah, that might be the way it came across but that certainly wasn't the way I intended it. And, perhaps there were some who just wanted to read into my comments what they perceived. Besides, I already stated that on occasion I'm unable to adequately express my thoughts, on paper if you will, as I'm not an Ernest Hemingway. Below is the morning devotion I receive daily.

Whom Is God Sending to You?

Daily Devotional for Tuesday, February 22nd, 2011

"So I brought him to Your disciples, but they could not cure him." Then Jesus answered and said, "O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I bear with you? Bring him here to Me." (Matthew 17:16-17)

Jesus gave His disciples the power to cast out demons and to perform miracles of healing. He gave them His authority to minister to people, yet they became so self-centered that they lost the power to do the work of God. When God sent a father with his epileptic son to them for healing, they failed miserably. They were so concerned with position and status that they lost their focus on what God wanted to do through them.

Jesus' response to His disciples included some of the harshest words ever to come from His mouth. He called His own disciples "unbelieving" And "perverse" And questioned how much longer He had to endure them! Why? Because they were supposed to be on mission with Him to bring salvation to others, but they had become so disoriented to Him that they were spiritually powerless, lacking the faith to bring physical and spiritual comfort to those God had sent to them.

God ought to be able to send a hurting person to any child of His and expect that they will be helped. Like the disciples, we can become so preoccupied with our own ambitions and distracted by the busyness of our lives that we become ineffective in ministering to those whom God sends to us. It is even possible to become so involved in religious activity that we are of no help to anyone. Regularly take inventory of your life to see if you are being a faithful steward of every life God sends to you.

As stated, Jesus gave to his disciples the power to....

How many churches have we in our nation today that function without this power? Churches and Deacon Boards that have become so self-centered they are missing the mark? They have a form of Godliness but deny the power thereof?

As Jesus referred to His own disciples as "unbelieving" And "perverse", where does that leave us?

What I was really trying to get across was that education is fine. I have no formal education myself..., and have nothing against those who have invested in such. I would much rather be operated on my some Doctor that knows what he's doing vice some guy with a Boy Scout Merit Badge in First Aid, but as a result of Organized Instruction (Bible Colleges) have our Preachers and Pastors missed the mark?

...I am of the opinion that some in leadership positions need to reevaluate their ministry. As stated, "God ought to be able to send a hurting person to any child of His and expect that they will be helped".

Acceptance of agenda doesn't really help very many in a time of need, in my humble opinion that is.

Besides, every one who has been to School to be a Pastor is quite capable of delivering a sermon.

 

[Gabriel Elijah]

Gabriel Elijah, that might be the way it came across but that certainly wasn't the way I intended it. And, perhaps there were some who just wanted to read into my comments what they perceived. Besides, I already stated that on occasion I'm unable to adequately express my thoughts, on paper if you will, as I'm not an Ernest Hemingway. Below is the morning devotion I receive daily.

Whom Is God Sending to You?

Daily Devotional for Tuesday, February 22nd, 2011

"So I brought him to Your disciples, but they could not cure him." Then Jesus answered and said, "O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I bear with you? Bring him here to Me." (Matthew 17:16-17)

Jesus gave His disciples the power to cast out demons and to perform miracles of healing. He gave them His authority to minister to people, yet they became so self-centered that they lost the power to do the work of God. When God sent a father with his epileptic son to them for healing, they failed miserably. They were so concerned with position and status that they lost their focus on what God wanted to do through them.

Jesus' response to His disciples included some of the harshest words ever to come from His mouth. He called His own disciples "unbelieving" And "perverse" And questioned how much longer He had to endure them! Why? Because they were supposed to be on mission with Him to bring salvation to others, but they had become so disoriented to Him that they were spiritually powerless, lacking the faith to bring physical and spiritual comfort to those God had sent to them.

God ought to be able to send a hurting person to any child of His and expect that they will be helped. Like the disciples, we can become so preoccupied with our own ambitions and distracted by the busyness of our lives that we become ineffective in ministering to those whom God sends to us. It is even possible to become so involved in religious activity that we are of no help to anyone. Regularly take inventory of your life to see if you are being a faithful steward of every life God sends to you.

As stated, Jesus gave to his disciples the power to....

How many churches have we in our nation today that function without this power? Churches and Deacon Boards that have become so self-centered they are missing the mark? They have a form of Godliness but deny the power thereof?

As Jesus referred to His own disciples as "unbelieving" And "perverse", where does that leave us?

What I was really trying to get across was that education is fine. I have no formal education myself..., and have nothing against those who have invested in such. I would much rather be operated on my some Doctor that knows what he's doing vice some guy with a Boy Scout Merit Badge in First Aid, but as a result of Organized Instruction (Bible Colleges) have our Preachers and Pastors missed the mark?

...I am of the opinion that some in leadership positions need to reevaluate their ministry. As stated, "God ought to be able to send a hurting person to any child of His and expect that they will be helped".

Acceptance of agenda doesn't really help very many in a time of need, in my humble opinion that is.

Besides, every one who has been to School to be a Pastor is quite capable of delivering a sermon.

Lol---hey I completely agree with that---maybe that should have been ur OP—like I said I didn’t think that ur were intentionally tryin to rip education & my response wasn’t really for you—just on the general notion that Christian phd’s are bad. By the way whether ur formally educated or not—ur personal writings are eloquent & sufficient in getting ur point across (as the above quote demonstrates)—I just think this particular OP came across in a way that did not relay ur genuine intentions. So again I apologize if it seemed I was going after u personally—b/c I wasn’t—just on certain ideas that the OP seemed to insinuate—by the way I loved ur line-

I would much rather be operated on my some Doctor that knows what he's doing vice some guy with a Boy Scout Merit Badge in First Aid

—
I’m gonna have to steal that one from ya-