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An Exit Strategy from Iraq Proposal for U.S.

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by KenH, Jul 5, 2005.

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  1. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    #1 KenH, Jul 5, 2005
  2. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    What do you think of it, Ken? [​IMG]
     
    #2 LadyEagle, Jul 5, 2005
  3. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    I just printed it off and I want to read all the way through it in detail. At first blush in skimming it, it does seem to be well reasoned proposal and not simply a "Bush lied! People died! Bring our troops home immediately!" rant. But I am still troubled by the idea of an arbitrary deadline, although this deadline does extend out a year which would come pretty close to when I think we should be having significant troop reductions in Iraq - by the end of 2006.

    Therefore, this proposal could look better to me(after I get a chance to read it thoroughly) day by day as we get closer to one year from December 2006.
     
    #3 KenH, Jul 5, 2005
  4. Baptist in Richmond

    Baptist in Richmond Active Member

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    I think that Iraq has become a quagmire, and there is no way out.
     
    #4 Baptist in Richmond, Jul 5, 2005
  5. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Iraq is mostly desert except along the rivers.
     
    #5 OldRegular, Jul 5, 2005
  6. Baptist in Richmond

    Baptist in Richmond Active Member

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    Thanks for that thought-provoking insight into the topic at hand.

    God's Best to you and yours, OldRegular,

    BiR
     
    #6 Baptist in Richmond, Jul 6, 2005
  7. The Galatian

    The Galatian Active Member

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    It's a sensible analysis of the situation. But I don't believe that the Iraqis will be ready to defend their government any time soon.

    And if the US negotiates with the Sunni groups fighting us, what will the Shiites do? What authority do we have to make promises for the supposedly democratic government we have installed?

    And Bush's old friend and Iranian agent Chalabi, is in a very powerful position therein.

    Still, it makes the most sense of all the proposals I've heard so far. We are in serious trouble, and there is no satisfactory way out at this time.
     
    #7 The Galatian, Jul 6, 2005
  8. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    I will not accept any plan that forces a set deadline. If we do that, all the terrorists have to do is wait us out.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #8 Joseph_Botwinick, Jul 6, 2005
  9. Baptist in Richmond

    Baptist in Richmond Active Member

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    Don't worry, Joseph: we are going to be there for a VERY long time - long after Bush is out of office (unless of course the Presidential term limits are repealed).

    Regards,
    BiR (in New Jersey)
     
    #9 Baptist in Richmond, Jul 6, 2005
  10. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    I am not going to worry, because Bush will not accept any idiotic, anti-war, liberal plan to set a deadline for pulling out. We will stay as long as it takes to accomplish the mission, and then we will come home. And finally, President Bush's term will end in 2009, and I predict that America will have either wrapped their part in Iraq up by then or will be close to leaving. That is not a set deadline, mind you, but a prediction. As much as you would love to see a repeat of Cambodia and Gulf War 1 after America left prematurely, I don't think this president is going to grant your wish. And for that, I am ever grateful.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #10 Joseph_Botwinick, Jul 6, 2005
  11. Baptist in Richmond

    Baptist in Richmond Active Member

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    As I said before, there is no need for worry: we will not pull out because we are stuck there, Joseph.

    Exactly what was that "mission," Joseph? Do you remember why we went to Iraq?

    No chance: we are stuck there, Joseph.

    Abject fatuity, nothing more.
    Joseph, please show everyone where I have ever said that I want to see "a repeat of Cambodia and Gulf War I." I would really like to see that. As you are the one who wrote this, please show me where I have made such a statement.

    We went into Iraq because of the alleged WMD's. Perhaps you have forgotten that. Remember all that talk about how we didn't want the smoking gun to take form as a mushroom cloud? This was not a case of "they didn't have nearly the WMD's as we thought," this was a case of "they didn't have any WMD's at all."

    Meanwhile, UBL is out there somewhere, undoubtedly plotting his next attack.......
     
    #11 Baptist in Richmond, Jul 6, 2005
  12. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    You and Teddy Kennedy, who also found a quart or two of whiskey a day to be a quagmire for him personally.
     
    #12 church mouse guy, Jul 6, 2005
  13. Baptist in Richmond

    Baptist in Richmond Active Member

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    Thanks for adding that that personal attack against Kennedy to this discussion.
     
    #13 Baptist in Richmond, Jul 6, 2005
  14. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    I am so ashamed of myself for calling Teddy an alcoholic without mentioning Chappaquiddick Island. We should all follow the lead of former Southern Baptist Jimmy Carter and say over and over that we are not going to use Chappaquiddick against Kennedy and I should just say that I am not going to use John Barleycorn against Teddy.
     
    #14 church mouse guy, Jul 6, 2005
  15. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Iraq is mostly desert except along the rivers. </font>[/QUOTE]OldRegular, as Miguel de Cervantes says in Don Quixote de la Mancha you may just be preaching in the desert or hammering cold iron. [​IMG]
     
    #15 church mouse guy, Jul 6, 2005
  16. Baptist in Richmond

    Baptist in Richmond Active Member

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    Exactly what is the purpose of this, CMG?
    What does your personal attack against someone who was not previously mentioned in this discussion bring to the table in terms of insight regarding this topic? What does that say about someone who attacks someone that wasn't even a part of the discussion until you interjected your attack?

    Come on, CMG: you're better than this.
     
    #16 Baptist in Richmond, Jul 6, 2005
  17. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Exactly what is the purpose of this, CMG?
    What does your personal attack against someone who was not previously mentioned in this discussion bring to the table in terms of insight regarding this topic? What does that say about someone who attacks someone that wasn't even a part of the discussion until you interjected your attack?

    Come on, CMG: you're better than this.     </font>[/QUOTE]With all due respect, BiR, and with total regard for our cyberspace and Christian friendship, I can't do better than say that I will never mention Teddy's alcoholism and his actions at Chappaquiddick Island because Teddy is the author of the remark that Iraq is a quagmire, which you, BiR, repeated in cyberspace, bringing to mind that shrunken brain alcoholic who fled the scene of a fatal accident and had his drivers license suspended for one year for so fleeing.
     
    #17 church mouse guy, Jul 6, 2005
  18. Baptist in Richmond

    Baptist in Richmond Active Member

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    So, you aren't better than that? Hmmm......

    Well, I can only take the high road and note that you introduced Ted Kennedy and his past into the discussion. I stated that Iraq is a quagmire, and Teddy and I are not the only ones who have said this, are we? You chose to introduce this for the sole purpose of launching a personal attack against Kennedy. That does not do much in terms of adding credibility to anything you say going forward. But thanks so much for bringing it up and reminding us of this event.........which of course is totally unrelated to the discussion at hand.

    I feel your pain, buddy: I once thought the way you do. But then I woke up.

    Regards,
    BiR

    P.S. Perhaps you could remind us of what the "mission" was in Iraq.
     
    #18 Baptist in Richmond, Jul 6, 2005
  19. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    SEC. 3. SENSE OF THE CONGRESS REGARDING UNITED STATES POLICY TOWARD IRAQ.

    It should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime.

    - SOURCE


    The Congress of the United States supports the efforts by the President to--
    (1) strictly enforce through the United Nations Security Council all relevant Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq and encourages him in those efforts; and
    (2) obtain prompt and decisive action by the Security Council to ensure that Iraq abandons its strategy of delay, evasion and noncompliance and promptly and strictly complies with all relevant Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq.
    SEC. 3. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.
    (a) AUTHORIZATION- The President is authorized to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate in order to--
    (1) defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and
    (2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq.
    (b) PRESIDENTIAL DETERMINATION- In connection with the exercise of the authority granted in subsection (a) to use force the President shall, prior to such exercise or as soon thereafter as may be feasible, but no later than 48 hours after exercising such authority, make available to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President pro tempore of the Senate his determination that--
    (1) reliance by the United States on further diplomatic or other peaceful means alone either (A) will not adequately protect the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq or (B) is not likely to lead to enforcement of all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq; and
    (2) acting pursuant to this joint resolution is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorist and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001.
    (c) War Powers Resolution Requirements-
    (1) SPECIFIC STATUTORY AUTHORIZATION- Consistent with section 8(a)(1) of the War Powers Resolution, the Congress declares that this section is intended to constitute specific statutory authorization within the meaning of section 5(b) of the War Powers Resolution.
    (2) APPLICABILITY OF OTHER REQUIREMENTS- Nothing in this joint resolution supersedes any requirement of the War Powers Resolution.
    SEC. 4. REPORTS TO CONGRESS. (a) REPORTS- The President shall, at least once every 60 days, submit to the Congress a report on matters relevant to this joint resolution, including actions taken pursuant to the exercise of authority granted in section 3 and the status of planning for efforts that are expected to be required after such actions are completed, including those actions described in section 7 of the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 (Public Law 105-338).
    (b) SINGLE CONSOLIDATED REPORT- To the extent that the submission of any report described in subsection (a) coincides with the submission of any other report on matters relevant to this joint resolution otherwise required to be submitted to Congress pursuant to the reporting requirements of the War Powers Resolution (Public Law 93-148), all such reports may be submitted as a single consolidated report to the Congress.
    (c) RULE OF CONSTRUCTION- To the extent that the information required by section 3 of the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution (Public Law 102-1) is included in the report required by this section, such report shall be considered as meeting the requirements of section 3 of such resolution.

    - SOURCE
     
    #19 KenH, Jul 6, 2005
  20. Baptist in Richmond

    Baptist in Richmond Active Member

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    Wow, good post.

    Two things:
    Where are those WMD's?
    What security risk did they pose again?

    As we are going to enforce the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998, then don't worry, Joseph: we will be there for a very long time.......
     
    #20 Baptist in Richmond, Jul 6, 2005
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