An Important Distinction

[calledbyHisgrace]

I've noticed that most Baptists don't seem to distinguish between the new birth and soul salvation. Why are these two concepts spoken of interchangeably? The Bible seems to indicate that they are separate events. Here are a few examples:

James 1:18-21
In verse 18, it refers to the audience as having already been born of God. In verse 21, the same audience is told to lay aside their sin and receive the word to the salvation of their souls.

James 5:19-20
In verse 19, we're told that "brethren" (born again individuals) can err from the truth and stand in need of soul salvation.

1 Peter 3:20
We're told that Noah's soul was saved by water during the flood.

In all these instances, soul salvation is connected to a separation from sin in the born again individuals life. I'm not aware of any verses that indicate that soul salvation and the new birth are the same thing.

 

[Van]

I believe your "distinction" is non-existent.

First, I think James is addressing Jews, members of the 12 tribes, not just born anew believers, but all the "professing believers of Jewish descent. This would therefore include those who do not walk the talk.

In verse James 1:20, I think the "righteousness" refers to staying on the path, following Jesus, thus to our effective service to Christ, following being born anew.

Sometimes salvation is used to refer to our progressive sanctification, where we earn the rewards of salvation. This is the meaning, IMO, in verse 21.

Note verse 26 refers to tares, those professing belief, but are not doers of the word.

 

[calledbyHisgrace]

I believe your "distinction" is non-existent.

First, I think James is addressing Jews, members of the 12 tribes, not just born anew believers, but all the "professing believers of Jewish descent. This would therefore include those who do not walk the talk.

In verse James 1:20, I think the "righteousness" refers to staying on the path, following Jesus, thus to our effective service to Christ, following being born anew.

Sometimes salvation is used to refer to our progressive sanctification, where we earn the rewards of salvation. This is the meaning, IMO, in verse 21.

Note verse 26 refers to tares, those professing belief, but are not doers of the word.

I agree with you, about the "righteousness" in James 1:20. Is there any instance, though, where "soul" salvation is not talking about our sanctification in this life? My point is that, "soul" salvation is the result of the separation from sin in a believer's life, and is a salvation from the temporal penalty for sin, death. Whereas the new birth is an instant and irreversible salvation from the eternal penalty of sin, Hell.

 

[Van]

I agree with you, about the "righteousness" in James 1:20. Is there any instance, though, where "soul" salvation is not talking about our sanctification in this life? My point is that, "soul" salvation is the result of the separation from sin in a believer's life, and is a salvation from the temporal penalty for sin, death. Whereas the new birth is an instant and irreversible salvation from the eternal penalty of sin, Hell.

Salvation is presented in scripture as a three-fold entity. First, positional stratification where God removes those chosen based on crediting their faith as righteousness from the "realm of darkness" and transfers them into Christ, where they undergo the washing of regeneration. This removes them from the "penalty of sin." Next, after being born anew, we live the rest of our physical life undergoing "progressive sanctification" where we strive to become more Christ-like, and serve Christ as His "ambassadors." During this phase, we earn rewards, and it is this part of "salvation" that can be lost by not walking the talk. This phrase progressively removes us from the power of sin to control our behavior. Finally, "Ultimate Sanctification" refers to our bodily redemption at Christ's second coming. This completes our salvation, the future part, and removes us from the presence of sin.

 

[calledbyHisgrace]

I agree with you, as well, that

Salvation is presented in scripture as a three-fold entity.

I also believe that the Bible distinguishes between these three aspects of salvation at times with specific terminology. I don't know of any instance where being "born again" refers to anything but the first aspect that you mentioned. I also don't know of any instance where "soul salvation" refers to anything but the second. Someone applying the term "soul salvation" to regeneration is no different than someone applying the term "new birth" to progressive sanctification. Yet, we've become so used to it that most think the terms are interchangeable. It may seem insignificant to some, but I believe that this error leaves our members unnecessarily vulnerable to false doctrines. For example, the belief that eternal salvation can be lost. Or, that water baptism is necessary for eternal salvation.

 

[SavedByGrace]

I've noticed that most Baptists don't seem to distinguish between the new birth and soul salvation. Why are these two concepts spoken of interchangeably? The Bible seems to indicate that they are separate events. Here are a few examples:

James 1:18-21
In verse 18, it refers to the audience as having already been born of God. In verse 21, the same audience is told to lay aside their sin and receive the word to the salvation of their souls.

James 5:19-20
In verse 19, we're told that "brethren" (born again individuals) can err from the truth and stand in need of soul salvation.

1 Peter 3:20
We're told that Noah's soul was saved by water during the flood.

In all these instances, soul salvation is connected to a separation from sin in the born again individuals life. I'm not aware of any verses that indicate that soul salvation and the new birth are the same thing.

when any sinner is born-again, their "soul" is "saved" from eternal punishment. The "body" is nothing and decays after death, and the human "spirit" returns to God (Ecclesiastes 12:7). Your theology is very confused!

 

[calledbyHisgrace]

when any sinner is born-again, their "soul" is "saved" from eternal punishment.

Being born again does ensure that a person's soul will be saved from eternal punishment, but it also ensures that our bodies will be raised again, incorruptible. I never hear anyone refer to regeneration as body salvation though...

As long as our souls are still bound to our earthly bodies, we will need continued deliverance from our sinful flesh. This is how the Bible uses the description "soul salvation". By using it to describe regeneration, we open the door to unnecessary confusion.

 

[Iconoclast]

Being born again does ensure that a person's soul will be saved from eternal punishment, but it also ensures that our bodies will be raised again, incorruptible. I never hear anyone refer to regeneration as body salvation though...

As long as our souls are still bound to our earthly bodies, we will need continued deliverance from our sinful flesh. This is how the Bible uses the description "soul salvation". By using it to describe regeneration, we open the door to unnecessary confusion.

23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

 

[kyredneck]

23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

Preserved! Now you're getting it Icon, preserved! God is faithful even though His children may not be!

3 For what if some were without faith? shall their want of faith make of none effect the faithfulness of God? Ro 3

13 if we are faithless, he abideth faithful; for he cannot deny himself. 2 Tim 2

 

[atpollard]

Salvation is presented in scripture as a three-fold entity. First, positional stratification where God removes those chosen based on crediting their faith as righteousness from the "realm of darkness" and transfers them into Christ, where they undergo the washing of regeneration. This removes them from the "penalty of sin."

Philippians 3:7-11 [NASB]

But whatever things were gain to me, these things I have counted as loss because of Christ. More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them mere rubbish, so that I may gain Christ, and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; if somehow I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.​

Next, after being born anew, we live the rest of our physical life undergoing "progressive sanctification" where we strive to become more Christ-like, and serve Christ as His "ambassadors." During this phase, we earn rewards, and it is this part of "salvation" that can be lost by not walking the talk. This phrase progressively removes us from the power of sin to control our behavior.

Philippians 2:12-13 [NASB]

So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presenceonly, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to desire and to work for His good pleasure.​

Finally, "Ultimate Sanctification" refers to our bodily redemption at Christ's second coming. This completes our salvation, the future part, and removes us from the presence of sin.

1 Corinthians 15:50-57 [NASB]

Now I say this, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Behold, I am telling you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. But when this perishable puts on the imperishable, and this mortal puts on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written: “DEATH HAS BEEN SWALLOWED UP in victory. WHERE, O DEATH, IS YOUR VICTORY? WHERE, O DEATH, IS YOUR STING?” The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the Law; but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
​

@Van
Abso-(blessed)-lutely!
Yes and Amen (2 Corinthians 1:20).

 

[SavedByGrace]

Being born again does ensure that a person's soul will be saved from eternal punishment, but it also ensures that our bodies will be raised again, incorruptible. I never hear anyone refer to regeneration as body salvation though...

As long as our souls are still bound to our earthly bodies, we will need continued deliverance from our sinful flesh. This is how the Bible uses the description "soul salvation". By using it to describe regeneration, we open the door to unnecessary confusion.

your "theology" is NOT from the Holy Bible!

 

[calledbyHisgrace]

@SavedByGrace
I'm sorry, I'm not clear on which part of my theology you're disagreeing with. Is it my belief in the resurrection of our physical bodies? Or, my understanding of the Bible's use of the term "soul" salvation?

 

[FollowTheWay]

The best description in the Bible of THE final judgement (only one) is found in MAT 25:31-46.

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[Mat 25:31 KJV] When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

[Mat 25:32 KJV] And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats:

[Mat 25:33 KJV] And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

[Mat 25:34 KJV] Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

[Mat 25:35 KJV] For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

[Mat 25:36 KJV] Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

[Mat 25:37 KJV] Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed [thee]? or thirsty, and gave [thee] drink?

[Mat 25:38 KJV]
When saw we thee a stranger, and took [thee] in? or naked, and clothed [thee]?

[Mat 25:39 KJV]
Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

[Mat 25:40 KJV]
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me.

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We are saved by grace through faith FOR good works. (not saved BY good works) The all-important question is: Did you follow Jesus and become more like him?
Simply saying the "Sinner's Prayer" means nothing unless it is accompanied by a born-again experience which is life-changing. As Jesus said, "You must be born again."