An Open Response to My "Arminian" Brothers & Sisters

On another thread Chappie stated:

and

I told Chappie that I take it from his own words that he has implicitly accused all who are Reformed / "Calvinists" / orthodox Protestants of the following:
1) Of being idolaters (worshiping a false god, a god other than the true God - YHWH);
2) Of being heretics (we claim the name of Christ, but our views of soteriology are aberrant);
3) Of being unconverted (to have eternal life is to know God - Jn. 17:3).

Other accusations that have been made against "Calvinists" within this forum have been that they/we have libeled God; that they/we have twisted and distorted the Scriptures; that they/we are "false prophets," and the like.

In spite of our deep disagreements we who are Reformed have never made such derogatory statements about you who are "Arminian." We who are Reformed understand, or at least I hope we do, that these are gravely serious charges made against those who claim the name of Jesus Christ.

Another thing that is deeply disturbing is the way that many have presented "Calvinism." It has not been presented, a caricature has. To misrepresent the Reformed view out of ignorance is poor, but to continue doing dp after one has had "Calvinism" and the beliefs of "Calvinists" explained to them time after time after time is another issue.

Those who are "Calvinists", once again:
* Affirm the existence and activity of the will.
* Affirm free moral agency.
* Affirm that the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation, and that it must be proclaimed to all.
* Affirm that an individual must believe the Gospel / place faith in Christ to be saved.
* Affirm that those who are sent to Hell are sent for their own wickedness and rejection of Christ.
* Affirm that God saves people in accordance with their wills (not against).
* Affirm that evangelism is commanded by God, and is a necessary part of accomplishing God's purposes.
* Affirm that prayer is commanded by God, and is a necessary part of accomplishing God's purposes.
* Deny that God is the author of sin.
* Deny fatalism.

What else shall I add? Perhaps this, we are NOT followers of John Calvin. JESUS CHRIST is our only LORD AND SAVIOR.

The doctrines you dispute are not unique to Calvin. He did not invent them. Discussion within the Church over the issues of grace and free will goes back to the fifth century (Augustine and Pelagius). There are many who you claim as your "forefathers" who preceded Calvin in holding to "total depravity" and "unconditional election." Wycliffe, Huss, Gottshalk, The Waldensians, Luther, Zwingli and Bucer.

Such men were both the fore-runners and the front-runners of the Protestant Reformation. The Roman Catholic Church, during the period of the Reformation, held the position that you do now. Erasmus, acting as a spokesman for the RCC, attacked Luther for these same beliefs. The RCC argued that it was impossible for Luther to be correct in asserting that salvation was by grace alone, that human beings can attribute nothing to salvation, that they are totally depraved, and that they do not have "free will." Their argument was that God throughout Scripture commands people to do good, repent, etc., etc. They argued that since God has commanded these things, that is proof enough that we can accomplish them. Do you realize that if the Protestant Reformation erupted today, you would concur with the RCC (and not the Reformers) on every major point regarding the ability of human beings and predestination? Does this in any way cause you to stop and reconsider your position?

If you want to discuss God's "love" by declaring that election is according to foreknowledge, then carefully consider the implications of your position. Because God determined to create you He determined all that you would do, before you did it, because He knew with absolute certainty all that you would do before He created you. Correct? If God knows in advance (before creation) that some human beings will ultimately reject Him, then how can God still create these people and be said to sincerely love them?

In this line of reasoning God creates people whom He knows, for certain, who will reject Him and wind up in Hell for all eternity. How can God be said to sincerely love such people? God must have created them simply to destroy them, and we can derive this conclusion without appealing to any "Calvinistic" premises. Knowing beforehand that they will reject Him, by then creating them God effectively 'predestines' them to Hell. That they are born makes it certain that they will actually be condemned. To maintain that God's determination of what will take place is conditioned upon what you do does not change anything. If you disagree with this, then your problem is not with Protestant orthodoxy, it is with classical theism!

Since the time of the Reformation there have been others who have held to "Calvinism." John Bunyan, who wrote "Pilgrim's Progress." John Newton, who penned "Amazing Grace." Jonathan Edwards and George Whitefield, men whom God used to ignite the Great Awakening. William Carey, the "Father of Modern Missions." And, in our own day, men such as J.I. Packer, R.C. Sproul, John MacArthur, John Piper, D.A. Carson, and D. James Kennedy (who started 'Evangelism Explosion').

If you want to declare that we who are "Calvinists," including all of these men, idolaters, heretics and false prophets, you certainly have the right to do so. I respectfully, and ardently, disagree. If this shall be your position, I will politely end my debate(s) on this topic with you all.

Rev. G

[ November 08, 2002, 12:27 AM: Message edited by: Rev. G ]

 

Chappie:
First, let me apologize because I posted this prior to reading any response from you. I should not have used the quote from you without hearing what you had to say. Please note, however, that I asked qualifying questions in my post. Nonetheless, if I have taken you out of context, I sincerely apologize.

Second, this isn't about your post in particular. It is about a whole lot of posts in general. I believe that was clear in what I stated.

Third, this is not a "bashing" or an effort to "vent [my] Calvinistic indignation." This is an effort that is hopeful of causing people to think seriously about the words they use, to think seriously about how they are approaching these discussions, and to think about whether or not "Calvinists" are brothers and sisters in Christ. These are serious matters, my friend, brought on by serious charges - whether explicity or implicit. I'm saddened that you think me to be vain and shallow rather than being concerned about these deep issues.

Chappie, I do wonder if you are as "innocent" as you proclaim. Elsewhere you stated this (in regard to "Arminianism" and "Calvinism"):

Do you deny that with this post you at least implicitly cast doubt upon our character and beliefs?

Chappie, I hope that you know from our exchanges that I like you. I honestly do. When I tell you that I am praying for you, it is because I really am. When I call you "friend," I have meant it. I think you are bright and zealous. I find both to be admirable, especially the zeal.

The other day I told Helen that I hoped her husband made it back safely from Australia. Know what? I not only meant that, but I prayed that the Lord would keep him safe while he was traveling, and that the Lord would bring him safely home to his family. I'm fairly certain that I aggravate the tar out of Helen and I don't think she likes me, at least not much, but she is my sister in Christ and so I both wished her well and prayed on her behalf. Why? Because I believe the Scriptures. I believe I am commanded to love my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ - even if they are "Arminian." I believe I am commanded to pray. So I do. And God is gracious and answers! Yet, on this board, accusations have been made that individuals such as myself are unloving, that we don't believe in prayer, and that we don't believe in evangelism. We have been called heretics and agents of satan. Do you know how much that cuts to the heart? To be called an instrument of my Lord's worst enemy? Of my worst enemy?

Chappie, this is what the post is about. I hope you understand that.

Rev. G

 

What do you mean by this, Chappie? I'm not wanting to "slap you around." I'm wanting to have an honest discussion.

Yes, without malice. That is my point, friend. May malice, and malicious words, be absent from our (everyone's) discussions.

Rev. G

 

Words have meaning, friend. Remember, "Every idle word..."

But I will move on.... (notice the smile?)

Rev. G

 

Chappie:

I did apologize to you earlier. The apology still stands.

Rev. G

 

Scott,

Yes, we quote Spurgeon. We love him. However, please recall that he called "Arminianism" heresy. He was, I believe, dealing with "true Arminiansm" (all five points) - although he certainly called the mixture of "Calvinism" and "Arminianism" a "mongrel." Yes, it does work both ways. But, has anyone on this board (Mr. Spurgeon excluded - he is not a member of the BB) ever called you a heretic, an agent of Satan, or anything remotely related?

There are certainly numerous non-Calvinists who quote Spurgeon with ease. Do you want to accuse them of speaking against you?

Rev. G

 

Scott:

Well, I hate to hear that. May BOTH "sides" deal with each other as Christ as dealt with us! Tenderly, graciously, kindly.

If I see that someone from the "Calvinistic" side states something that is "out of bounds," I will take the liberty to discuss it with that individual. No one has asked me to do it, but I will anyway - and I call on my Reformed brothers and sisters to do the same.

I would also encourage you and others from the "Arminian" camp to do this as well. May we keep ourselves in check!

Rev. G