An Overreaction

[adisciplinedlearner]

The doctrine of justification/salvation by faith ALONE is an overreaction to the legalism of the Roman Catholic Church. Consequently, it is antinomian in nature. Both legalism and antinomianism need to be avoided like the plague.

 

[Dr. Walter]

The doctrine of justification/salvation by faith ALONE is an overreaction to the legalism of the Roman Catholic Church. Consequently, it is antinomian in nature. Both legalism and antinomianism need to be avoided like the plague.

This is just blathering igorance on display. Just because we follow Paul instead of you in regard to the doctrine of justification does not mean we don't in addition follow Paul in his teaching of progressive sanctification and the regenerate nature with the indwelling Spirit of God. However, it is noteworthy that Paul expected your type (legalists) to respond to his doctrine of justification by the charge of antinomianism (Rom. 6:1).

 

[Dr. Walter]

Matthew 5:19 is placed side by side with Matthew 5:20 other than just a numerical order. In Matthew 5:19 those already IN the kingdom can disobey the least of commandments and teach others to disobey them and yet reamain in the kingdom of heaven as "least" in contrast to the "greatest" which means there are all levels in between "least" and "greatest" without anyone's salvation being forfeited.

However, in Matthew 5:20 one cannot even "enter" the kingdom of heaven unless their righteousness EXCEEDS the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees. Note this is required to "ENTER" in at the very START rather than like those in verse 19 already in.

What you are blind to, is that the righeousness required to ENTER the kingdom of heaven that must EXCEED that of religious men, is the righteousness that EXCEEDS their interpretation of the righteousness of the law (vv. 21-47) so that it EQUALS the righteous of God (v. 48).

The only place to get that kind of righteousness to ENTER the kingdom of God is by faith in Christ as the foundation "rock" as this is the will of the Father (Jn. 6:40) - "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. and this is the will of the Father at the last day being reaffirmed in Matthew 7:21-23 where some came before God attempting to be justified upon the "SAND" foundation of the MIXTURE of "Lord, Lord" PLUS "have we not done many wonderful works."

However, those already in the kingdom because they entered in upon faith in THE FULFILLMENT OF GOD'S LAW BY CHRIST - Matthew 5:16-18 - the only thing that all their good works determine is REWARD in heaven "least" or "greatest" or somewhere in between." It is the rock that gets you into heaven whereas what you build upon that rock determines only rewards (I Cor. 3:11-15).

You cannot even interpret Christ correctly.

 

[Tom Bryant]

This is just blathering igorance on display. Just because we follow Paul instead of you in regard to the doctrine of justification does not mean we don't in addition follow Paul in his teaching of progressive sanctification and the regenerate nature with the indwelling Spirit of God. However, it is noteworthy that Paul expected your type (legalists) to respond to his doctrine of justification by the charge of antinomianism (Rom. 6:1).

Well said!

 

[Thinkingstuff]

This is just blathering igorance on display. Just because we follow Paul instead of you in regard to the doctrine of justification does not mean we don't in addition follow Paul in his teaching of progressive sanctification and the regenerate nature with the indwelling Spirit of God. However, it is noteworthy that Paul expected your type (legalists) to respond to his doctrine of justification by the charge of antinomianism (Rom. 6:1).

Actually, you don't. You call that a "works based salvation". You've made it abundantly clear sanctification which is produced by faith is a participation in "works based salvation" . So antinomianism is a pretty good discription.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DW:Just because we follow Paul instead of you in regard to the doctrine of justification

HP: From everthing I have read from you in reality there is no truth to that statement at all. You may align closely with the likes of Augustine or Calvin, but certainly not Paul. Sorry to have to be the one to tell you.

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

Faith that works by love (Gal. 5:6) is not the same thing as faith ALONE. The first idea is neither legalistic nor antinomian. The second idea is antinomian.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Actually, you don't. You call that a "works based salvation". You've made it abundantly clear sanctification which is produced by faith is a participation in "works based salvation" . So antinomianism is a pretty good discription.

You respond this way because in your mind you are not able to distinguish between things that differ. However, don't attribute your limitations to me or others. I don't call Romans 6-8:13 a "works based salvation" because I don't believe we can be sanctified by the law any more than we can justified by the law.

 

[Dr. Walter]

HP: From everthing I have read from you in reality there is no truth to that statement at all. You may align closely with the likes of Augustine or Calvin, but certainly not Paul. Sorry to have to be the one to tell you.

In John 6:39,40 and 44 there is the same essential phrase that concludes each of these verses "but should raise it up again at the last day.

The first time Jesus uses it is in verse 39 is to REAFFIRM the phrase "I SHALL LOSE NOTHING" but instead of suffering any loss "but should raise it up again at the last day." Here he plainly teaches that "OF ALL" that come to Christ all shall be raised up to the resurrection of life so that I SHALL LOSE NOTHING.

The second time Jesus uses it is in verse 40 to REAFFIRM the phrase "may have everlasting life" and therefore "and I will raise him up at the last day" to the resurrection of life demanding again as first used "I SHALL LOSE NOTHING."

The third time Jesus uses it is in verse 44 to REAFFIRM the phrase "except the Father which hath sent me draw him:" and then to REAFFIRM "him" being drawn SHALL NOT BE LOST he immediately says for the third time, and I will raise him up at the last day..

Verse 45 again demonstrates that "ALL" who are under consideration by the prophet shall be taught of God and thus "EVERYONE" having heard and learned in this teaching session "shall come to me"

Therefore, these three Affirmations in verses 39,40,and 44 demonstrate that it is the same "him" under consideration in all three verses and therefore "OF ALL" that the Father gives and draws come to Christ and "I SHALL LOSE NOTHING" is reaffirmed by the promise of resurrection to eternal life to these regarded individually "him."

Finally, in John 6:65 Jesus intentionally refers the audiance back to his words in John 6:44 but changes the word "draw" to the phrase "given unto HIM of my Father" to show that saving faith that is missing in those in verse 64 must be "given" by the Father or they cannot come to him as TRUE BELIEVERS.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Faith that works by love (Gal. 5:6) is not the same thing as faith ALONE. The first idea is neither legalistic nor antinomian. The second idea is antinomian.

Faith that WORKS by anything is different than faith that RESTS upon the object of the finished work or complete propiation by Christ - Rom. 3:24-26 - The former has to do with sanctification while the latter has to with justification.

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

Faith without works is dead faith, which is false faith. True faith works by love. It is not passive, but active. (You and I have discussed these issues for years, and I know there is no changing your mind. Nevertheless, I share the truth with you because I love you and want what is best for you and your family.)

 

[Thinkingstuff]

You respond this way because in your mind you are not able to distinguish between things that differ. However, don't attribute your limitations to me or others. I don't call Romans 6-8:13 a "works based salvation" because I don't believe we can be sanctified by the law any more than we can justified by the law.

You parse distinctions primarily to make an emphasis however logically carried out Pauls discourse on sanctification is irrelevant in your faith system because once justified nothing else is wanted. To participate in that God calls you to cooperate with him is as you've already mentioned "works based" and affects justification no matter where in the walk of the Christian we are talking about. Thus all things end at justification. According to you we can't attain perfect holiness in this life therefore no attempt is needed lest it becomes works based salvation. And thus Roman's 6-8:13 again is irrelevant once again. still Antinominan fits.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Faith without works is dead faith, which is false faith. True faith works by love. It is not passive, but active. (You and I have discussed these issues for years, and I know there is no changing your mind. Nevertheless, I share the truth with you because I love you and want what is best for you and your family.)

Thank you for your concern. However, the reason I have not come to your position is because it is simply wrong. Your motives may be good but your doctrine is wrong.

Justifying faith is not without works - it rests WHOLLY upon the finished WORKS of Christ whereas sanctifying faith is not without works as it is as you say works by love.

 

[Dr. Walter]

You parse distinctions primarily to make an emphasis however logically carried out Pauls discourse on sanctification is irrelevant in your faith system because once justified nothing else is wanted. To participate in that God calls you to cooperate with him is as you've already mentioned "works based" and affects justification no matter where in the walk of the Christian we are talking about. Thus all things end at justification. According to you we can't attain perfect holiness in this life therefore no attempt is needed lest it becomes works based salvation. And thus Roman's 6-8:13 again is irrelevant once again. still Antinominan fits.

You don't know what you are talking about. I have never entered into my belief in regard to progressive sanctification, namely, because you are attempting to make progressive sanctification synonymous with justification.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

The doctrine of justification/salvation by faith ALONE is an overreaction to the legalism of the Roman Catholic Church. Consequently, it is antinomian in nature. Both legalism and antinomianism need to be avoided like the plague.

I just wish this New Perspectives garbage would finally die. :tonofbricks:

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

RB, what is 'new' about the perspective?

 

[DHK]

Faith that works by love (Gal. 5:6) is not the same thing as faith ALONE. The first idea is neither legalistic nor antinomian. The second idea is antinomian.

IMO you just throw around words to deceive people into making them think you know something. I doubt if you even know what antinomianism is! Can you define it?

 

[DHK]

HP: From everthing I have read from you in reality there is no truth to that statement at all. You may align closely with the likes of Augustine or Calvin, but certainly not Paul. Sorry to have to be the one to tell you.

Aaaaah the Calvinist name calling again. Just can't get away from that can you. You really must love that man. You have used the name of Calvin more than any other person that I know of, perhaps more than any other person on this board. I wonder if I went through all your posts and did a survey if I would find that you used the name of Calvin more than the name of Christ???

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

IMO you just throw around words to deceive people into making them think you know something. I doubt if you even know what antinomianism is! Can you define it?

I am a Bible college and seminary graduate, and I have seriously studied theology for 30 years. This does not mean I know more than others, and I have no desire to try to impress others with any knowledge I might have by God's grace. I understand antinomianism, however.

I am a worm and no man. Jesus is everything and I am nothing.

 

[DHK]

I am a Bible college and seminary graduate, and I have seriously studied theology for 30 years. This does not mean I know more than others, and I have no desire to try to impress others with any knowledge I might have by God's grace. I understand antinomianism, however.

I am a worm and no man. Jesus is everything and I am nothing.

What is it then?