And now for the "why don't"s...

I can speak for Lutherans (still being one) on the confession issue.

Originally, confession was held in high esteem by Lutherans. Although Luther formulated the "corporate confession," he specifically stated that private confession was to be retained.

Corporate confession is done at every Lutheran service. It is the Confession/Absolution, where the congregation, in unison, confesses their sinful nature and that they justly deserve what's should happen to them, and then ask for Christ's mercy and forgiveness. This is followed by the Absolution from the pastor, and then the Kyrie.

Unfortunately, private confession has not been retained. Although there is still the setup for it in the Lutheran Worship book, and if you wanted to privately confess your sins to a pastor, by all means, you're welcome to. However, I have never known anyone in my life to take this up. If so, they do it more or less in secret; embarassed of their transgressions. Thus, it's fallen into something that Lutherans never talk about, and it has more or less been forgotten. Of course, Luther took it down from "sacramental" status, so that didn't help, either.

I think the main reason is because Protestants have lost the notion of mortal sin. All sin is deadly and deserving of the same punishment, and, since it is impossible to recite every sin to a pastor, private confession is not important. If all sin is equal, than that IS the case. Of course, all sin is NOT equal.

 

"All generations will call me blessed."

Why is it that Protestants insist on just calling her "Mary" when scripture alone says that "all" will call her "blessed." You hear "Mary," and "the Virgin Mary," but never "the Blessed Virgin Mary." This is not anti-scriptural, and no matter what beliefs you hold on Mary, this isn't idolotrous in any way. So, why don't you call her blessed?

 

Surely they do call her 'blessed', in the same way that the poor in spirit, peacemakers etc. are blessed! The word 'blessed' simply means 'happy, fortunate and to be envied' (Amplified Bible) - (In effect, all she was saying, to put things in more colloquial English, is "Everyone's going to say how lucky I am"!) We'd all agree that Mary the Mother of Jesus fits that description - even that she was particularly honoured by God in being chosen for such a unique and vital task.

But why the necessity, by transfering the stress to the final syllable, to make this simple - and relatively commonplace - adjective into some kind of religious title?!? God, after all, is no 'respecter of persons' per se!

And, btw, where, when the Bible refers to Jesus mother, does it speak of her as "Blessed Mary"? Didn't those naughty apostles ever read Luke's Gospel!?!

Anthony

[ March 05, 2002, 06:12 PM: Message edited by: Truelight UK ]

 

Hi Truelight,

Do you see Mary prefigured in the Old Testament anywhere?

God bless,

Carson

 

Mary in the OT?

Never really thought about that one, tho' I guess the miraculous conception of Jacob/Israel to Sarai must be the obvious candidate - even if Sarai laughed at the idea, where Mary's initial query was more humbly respectful, and Sarai's inability to conceive was not from want of trying!

I know the Orthodox Church sees Mary's perpetual virginity as symbolised in the East Gate of Ezekiel's temple (ch44), tho' I'm not entirely convinced about it.

What had you in mind?

Anthony

[ March 05, 2002, 07:04 PM: Message edited by: Truelight UK ]

 

Hi Truelight,

The East Gate of Ezekiel's Temple sounds really interesting; I'll have to read about that sometime. I would agree with you concerning Sarai; she's on my own prefigurement "list".

I would include Eve, Hannah, Bathsheba, and the Ark of the Old Covenant.

Can you see why I would see each of the above as old testament foretypes of Mary?

God bless,

Carson

 

So, Dojo, is your mom a godly mother? Do you call your mom blessed?

(Prov 31:28 KJV) Her children arise up, and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praiseth her.

 

D.S.,

I'll just take a quick moment to say that I do believe confessing our faults to one another and seeking prayer from one another is something we should do. I think most folks don't do this, though, because they are not humble enough to do so.

Julia

 

So, Dojo, is your mom a godly mother? Do you call your mom blessed?

(Prov 31:28 KJV) Her children arise up, and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praiseth her.</font>[/QUOTE]Good point. However, Catholics don't believe Mary is the only blessed person. I never tried to imply that. However, she proclaimed that "all generations" will call her blessed. That's a bold statement. Will all generations call my mother blessed? No, because my mother is blessed to me, my family, and her friends. Mary was the mother of Christ, a slightly different situation, don't you think?

 

Why don't protestant churches see that contraception is wrong? Not a century ago, all Christian churches were against it, and I know that Martin Luther considered it a "vile sin."

Furthermore, Margaret Sanger, the most influencial person in our nation's history on pushing contraception and abortion, hoped that getting these ideas into the main stream would "undermine the authority of the Christian church." And, as we can see, I know of no Protestant church that considers it a sin anymore, even though they once did.

 

I suspect largely because no-one is too clear exactly what Paul was refering to, going by the commentaries I've seen on the verse!
My own personal feeling is that it was a practice of limited relevance, applicable specifically to a generation which had many dead relatives who, while God-fearing, Messiah-awaiting Jews, had had no personal opportunity to accept and follow Christ, as they died before He came along. (Tho', on this kind of basis, it could conceivably still be applied to people-groups experiencing their first exposure to the Godspel).

Of course, the Mormon's still go in for it in a big way...

Anthony

[ March 06, 2002, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: Truelight UK ]

 

Hannah - definitely; clear parallels of miraculous motherhood (and of one who was to judge Israel too) there. Eve ...the mother of humanity; maybe. The Ark of the Covenant - mundane, physical 'God-bearer'; yup. Bathsheba? Mother of the son of David who inherited his throne, I suppose (tho' certainly no virtuous virgin!).

Could one maybe include Ruth as well?

Anthony

 

Why don't Sola Scriptura claiming Protestants abandon all of their borrowed Catholic Traditions - like the Creeds and the order of Worship (liturgy) in some of the more conservative Protestant sects?

 

Mrs C, you make an accusation and then do nothing to back it up. Maybe before you should find out what the teachings are before you jump on them. The Lutheran Church teaches the Creeds (Apostles, Nicene, and Athenasian) are scripturally correct explainations. Liturgy is an effective means for conducting orderly worship and an effective teaching tool.

 

Dojo, though I do not consider the Baptist church as part of the Protestant movement, I know of many independent Baptist churches that preach against birth control. In fact, I helped write a booklet entitled Biblical Birth Control and it has been posted on my web page.

Julia