1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Angel of the Lord

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Amy.G, Feb 5, 2008.

Top Posters
  1. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    5
    I was reading Matthew 28 tonight and read:


    Mat 28:2 And behold, there was a great earthquake; for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat on it.
    Mat 28:3 His countenance was like lightning, and his clothing as white as snow. Mat 28:4 And the guards shook for fear of him, and became like dead men.

    The KJV reads "the angel of the Lord".

    I remembered other times I had read similar passages.

    Mat 17:2 and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light.

    Rev 1:16 He had in His right hand seven stars, out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword, and His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength.
    Rev 1:17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, "Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last.




    Is it possible that the angel of Lord that rolled away the stone was Jesus Himself?
     
    #1 Amy.G, Feb 5, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 5, 2008
  2. cowboymatt

    cowboymatt New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2008
    Messages:
    350
    Likes Received:
    0
    In the Greek of Matt 28.2 there is no definite article ("the") in the text, thus the indefinite ("an") is assumed. The KJV has it wrong.

    And the "his" and "him" of 28.3-4 refer to the angel and not Jesus. Jesus doesn't reappear in the scene until 28.9 where he meets up with the women who were hurrying away.
     
    #2 cowboymatt, Feb 5, 2008
  3. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    Messages:
    9,454
    Likes Received:
    3
    I preached a message a few years back out of that text. Focusing on the angel who sat on the stone.

    Did ya ever stop to think why that angel 'sat' on the stone?

    Other Gospel's have angels standing, yet, this angel is sitting.
     
    #3 standingfirminChrist, Feb 5, 2008
  4. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    The KJV has it wrong. When "an" angel appears, it's a heavenly messenger, but when "the" angel appears, it's a Christophany.
     
    #4 webdog, Feb 5, 2008
  5. exscentric

    exscentric Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 24, 2004
    Messages:
    4,366
    Likes Received:
    47
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Not to argue, but to make a distinction - you look to the Old Testament you will find that the Angel of the Lord was most likely Christ.
     
    #5 exscentric, Feb 5, 2008
  6. cowboymatt

    cowboymatt New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2008
    Messages:
    350
    Likes Received:
    0
    Calling the angel of the Lord in the OT Jesus is problematic too. While I don't disagree that it is certainly possible, it probably not EVERY time.
     
    #6 cowboymatt, Feb 5, 2008
  7. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    5
    I figured that the article in that verse was probably not in the Greek, so that leaves it up to the translators to insert one, which means it could go either way.
    But aside from that, what about the clothing? And what about the brightness of his countenance? These are descriptions that I only see of Christ.

    I don't think we can know for sure, but don't you think it's possible?

    Just a thought I had while reading this passage. I'm not trying to prove anything.

    Thanks for the replies. :)
     
    #7 Amy.G, Feb 5, 2008
  8. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    5
    It's not just the KJV that says "the".

    Wycliff
    2 And lo! there was made a great earth-shaking; for the angel of the Lord came down from heaven, and approached, and turned away the stone [a], and sat thereon.

    CEV
    2Suddenly a strong earthquake struck, and the Lord's angel came down from heaven. He rolled away the stone and sat on it
     
    #8 Amy.G, Feb 5, 2008
  9. cowboymatt

    cowboymatt New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2008
    Messages:
    350
    Likes Received:
    0
    When there is no article you should assume the indefinite article. If "the" had been intended then it would have been included.

    Also, the only entity that the next pronouns could go back to is the angel, not the Lord since "Lord" is not the head verb in the phrase "angel of the Lord."

    Plus how would Jesus have "come down form heaven" in order to roll the stone away if he was inside the tomb?
     
    #9 cowboymatt, Feb 5, 2008
  10. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    5
    Because He wasn't in the tomb at that time. He had already been resurrected. The stone wasn't there to keep Jesus in, but to keep people out.
     
    #10 Amy.G, Feb 5, 2008
  11. cowboymatt

    cowboymatt New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2008
    Messages:
    350
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jesus had not yet ascended, thus he couldn't have come "from heaven."
     
    #11 cowboymatt, Feb 5, 2008
  12. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    5
    I see what you're saying, but didn't He take His blood to the Father to atone for sins? Therefore, He was in heaven?
    His countenance shown like the sun, which was the glory of God, having been in His presence.
     
    #12 Amy.G, Feb 5, 2008
  13. cowboymatt

    cowboymatt New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2008
    Messages:
    350
    Likes Received:
    0
    The "character" of the angel of the Lord had already been introduced in 1.20, 24 and 2.13 and 19. In each of those cases the angel is not Jesus.

    Also, the description of the angel at the tomb does match some descriptions of Jesus (and God) in the Bible, but that doesn't mean that they are the same. Besides, there are many references to angels outside of the Bible in Jewish and Christian texts that are very similar to the one in Matt 28. In other words, during the time of the NT, it was common to conceive of angels in the way that the angel of the Lord is conceived of in Matt 28.
     
    #13 cowboymatt, Feb 5, 2008
  14. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    5
    I don't see what difference it makes that the angel had appeared early in the book. How do you know the angel who spoke to Joseph wasn't Jesus?

    I don't know about other texts that describe angels. I'm only going by what the Bible says.

    I think it's possible that the angel that rolled away the stone was Jesus, so there. :tongue3: ..... :laugh:
     
    #14 Amy.G, Feb 5, 2008
  15. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    Messages:
    9,454
    Likes Received:
    3
    The angel on the stone could not have been Jesus. Scripture declares in verse 6, "He is not here, for He is risen...'

    The angel was not speaking of himself, but of the risen Savior.
     
    #15 standingfirminChrist, Feb 5, 2008
  16. DonnaMartinez

    DonnaMartinez New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2008
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    0
    This may be wierd, but I was always taught the angel of the Lord was the archangel Gabriel. I cant give scripture to back that up, but thats what I was taught since I was little.
     
    #16 DonnaMartinez, Feb 5, 2008
  17. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    5
    Couldn't "he is not here" mean that He is not in the tomb? He is not dead? Couldn't he have meant that the "body" of the dead Jesus is not in the tomb (here)? And that was truth. He wasn't in the tomb.

    Not arguing. Just throwing thoughts out there. :)
     
    #17 Amy.G, Feb 5, 2008
  18. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    5
    The angel Gabriel spoke to the shepherds and Mary. But the angel of the Lord spoke to Joseph and sat on the stone.
     
    #18 Amy.G, Feb 5, 2008
  19. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    Messages:
    9,454
    Likes Received:
    3
    Again, I do not think it Jesus. For after the angel commanded, they left the sepulchre (v.8). On their way to the Disciple's, they met Jesus (v.9).
     
    #19 standingfirminChrist, Feb 5, 2008
  20. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ok. You may be right. When I read that last night, other scriptures popped into my mind where Jesus is dressed in white and His countenance is as the sun and I thought I was onto something. :laugh:

    I like this board because I can throw my thoughts out there and test them.

    Thanks to everyone.
     
    #20 Amy.G, Feb 5, 2008
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Loading...