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Another "Christianity"?

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Rev. G, Nov 22, 2002.

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  1. Rev. G

    Rev. G New Member

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    Robert Schuller's book, 'Self-Esteem: The New Reformation' was published in 1984. He makes some interesting comments in there, which I will post. Question: Is what Schuller advocates a different form of "Christianity" than the "faith once for all delivered unto the saints"? Or, another way to put it, is his 'gospel' "another gospel"?

    General Theology
    "Classical theology has erred in its insistence that theology be 'God-centered,' not 'man-centered'" (p. 64).

    "Historical theology has too often failed to interpret repentance as a positive creative force. ... Essentially, if Christianity is to succeed in the next millennium, it must cease to be a negative religion and must become positive" (p. 104).

    "Roman Catholics utter their Papal edicts, Protestants quote their Bible, Fundamentalists declare their orthodox theological dogmas, and we are all expected to renounce private reflection and peacefully acquiesce to these pronouncements. And the result is that the dignity of the person is violated by such oppressive, intelligence-smothering forms of communication" (p. 153).

    "One classical role of the pulpit in Protestantism has been to 'preach sermons' which imply indoctrination more than education. Within this from of communication, there is an inherent, intrinsic inclination to intimidate, manipulate, and, hence, offend the person's most prized quality of humanness -- his dignity" (p. 153).

    "In a theology that starts with an uncompromising respect for each person's pride and dignity, I have no right to ever preach a sermon or write an article that would offend the self-respect and violate the self-dignity of a listener or reader. Any minister, religious leader, writer, or reporter who stoops to a style, a strategy, a substance, or a spirit that fails to show respect for his or her audience is committing an insulting sin. Every human being must be treated with respect; self-esteem is his sacred right" (pp. 153-154).

    "The tragedy of Christendom today is the existence of entire congregations of church members who are dominated by emotionally deprived or emotionally under-developed persons. These congregations have been accurately labeled 'God's Frozen People.' ... And they do this by exercising narrow authoritarianism in doctrines and practices and by sowing seeds of suspicion and dissension in the religious community. ... By contrast, strong persons -- self-assured personalities, whose egos find their nourishment in a self-esteem-generating personal relationship with Jesus Christ -- dare to face contrary opinions, diverse interpretations, and deviations of theology without becoming disrespectful, judgmental, or accusatory" (p. 154).

    "The classical error of historical Christianity is that we have never started with the value of the person. Rather, we have started from the 'unworthiness of the sinner,' and that starting point has set the stage for the glorification of human shame in Christian theology" (p. 162).

    Hamartiology - The Doctrine of Sin
    "What do I mean by sin? Answer: Any human condition or act that robs God of glory by stripping one of His children of their right to divine dignity. ... I can offer still another answer: 'Sin is any act or thought that robs myself or another human being of his or her self-esteem'" (p. 14).

    "Classical theology defines sin as 'rebellion against God.' The answer is not incorrect as much as it is shallow and insulting to the human being. Every person deserves to be treated with dignity even if he or she is a 'rebellious sinner" (p. 65).

    "The core of original sin, then is LOT -- Lack of Trust. Or, it could be considered an innate inability to adequately value ourselves. Label it a 'negative self-image,' but do not say that the central core of the human soul is wickedness. ... positive Christianity does not hold to human depravity, but to human inability" (p. 67).

    "Any analysis of 'sin' or 'evil' or 'demonic influence' or 'negative thinking' or 'systemic evil' or 'antisocial behavior' that fails to see the lack of self-dignity as the core of the problem will prove to be too shallow" (p. 68).

    "... the core of sin is a lack of self-esteem. ... Sin is psychological self-abuse. ... the most serious sin is one that causes me to say, 'I am unworthy. I may have no claim to divine sonship if you examine me at my worst.' For once a person believes he is an 'unworthy sinner,' it is doubtful if he can really honestly accept the saving grace God offers in Jesus Christ" (pp. 98-99).

    Comments on Hell
    "And what is 'hell'? It is the loss of pride that naturally follows separation from God -- the ultimate and unfailing source of our soul's sense of self-respect. 'My God, my God, why has thou forsaken me?' was Christ's encounter with hell. In that 'hellish' death our Lord experienced the ultimate horror-humiliation, shame, and loss of pride as a human being. A person is in hell when he has lost his self-esteem. Can you imagine any condition more tragic than to live life and eternity in shame?" (pp. 14-15, 93).

    Soteriology - Doctrine of Salvation
    "What we need is a theology of salvation that begins and ends with a recognition of every person's hunger for glory" (pp. 26-27).

    "We are born to soar. We are children of God. ... The Fatherhood of God offers a deep spiritual cure for the inferiority complex and lays the firm foundation for a solid spiritual self-esteem" (p. 60).

    "I am humanly unable to correct my negative self-image until I encounter a life-changing experience with non-judgmental love bestowed upon me by a Person whom I admire so much that to be unconditionally accepted by Him is to be born again" (p. 67).

    "To be born again means that we must be changed from a negative to a positive self-image -- from inferiority to self-esteem, from fear to love, from doubt to trust" (p. 68).

    "The Cross sanctifies the ego trip. For the Cross protected our Lord's perfect self-esteem from turning into sinful pride" (p. 75).

    Christology
    "Christ is the Ideal One, for he was Self-Esteem Incarnate" (p. 135).

    "Jesus never called a person a sinner. ... Rather he reserved his righteous rebuke for those who used their religious authority to generate guilt and caused people to lose their ability to taste and enjoy their right to dignity ..." (pp. 100, 126).

    Well?
     
    #1 Rev. G, Nov 22, 2002
  2. donnA

    donnA Active Member

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    Doesn't look christian to me.
     
    #2 donnA, Nov 22, 2002
  3. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    It is amazing to see the depths to which one will go when they depart from Scripture as the authoritiative revelation of God.
     
    #3 Pastor Larry, Nov 22, 2002
  4. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Looks like you got this from an anti- something or other site, since it's a list of quotes formatted. I tend not to put a lot of trust in those sites that quote passages out of books like that, because they tend to be totally off the meaning contextually.

    I happen to think he's right on the mark on several points. Others not as much.

    Since Rev Schuller has a Calvinistic background, and his church is in the denomination of the Reformed Church in America, those who are anti-calvinist will no doubt have a field day with sites like the one you got your info from.

    [ November 22, 2002, 05:08 PM: Message edited by: Johnv ]
     
    #4 Johnv, Nov 22, 2002
  5. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    He may have Calvinism in his background, but based on those quotes, he is no Calvinist.

    Ken
     
    #5 KenH, Nov 22, 2002
  6. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    "ADAM!... Who told thee thou wast naked? :mad: ... Didn't seem to me God was concerned with Adams self esteem or afraid he might bruise his dignity!... Brother Glen :rolleyes:
     
    #6 tyndale1946, Nov 22, 2002
  7. Rev. G

    Rev. G New Member

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    "Calvinistic background" in the WIDEST sense. He has one like Adrian Rogers and Paige Patterson do (the SBC founders being Reformed).
    Nonetheless, we are dealing with HIS views, regardless of his denominational affiliation. Actually, John, I've got his book. The preface alone is a real piece of work. :rolleyes: (emoticon for Schuller, not John).

    Rev. G
     
    #7 Rev. G, Nov 22, 2002
  8. Rev. G

    Rev. G New Member

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    BTW, I'll never forget when I heard him preach a sermon on Romans 6:23 in 1988. To summarize - it wasn't a lot different than this book.

    Rev. G
     
    #8 Rev. G, Nov 22, 2002
  9. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    It stinks of Norman Vincent Peale and the social gospel of his era.

    It is one step away from doing good makes you good. Even Harry Emerson Fosdick, in his hay-day, was more biblical than that, and he denied the very trinity of God and deity of the Christ.

    What will be the next step of this father and son theatrical pulpit?

    Cheers, in that Lord who came to seek and to save that which was lost......not in the town, but in a quagmire of sin and deprivation.

    Jim
     
    #9 Jim1999, Nov 22, 2002
  10. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    God also knows that how we see ourselves in our minds will be reflected in our conduct. Whatever a man “thinks within himself, so is he” (Proverbs 23:7). Jesus Himself taught that the state of one’s mind is the fountain of his activity. “For from within, out of the heart of men, evil thoughts proceed . . .” (Mark 7:21). If an individual harbors an unhealthy image of himself/herself, such can be manifested in a variety of distressing ways. It's no secret among us that a low self worth commonly results in sinful activity: promiscuity, substance abuse, materialism, and/or a critical spirit.

    We must see ourselves as God sees us, which are beings created in his "image and likeness" (Gen 1:26-27), created "a little lower than the angels" and "crowned with glory and honor" (Psalm 8).

    Come to think of it, David wrote Psalm 8 to speak well of man, not ill of man: “When I consider your heavens, the work of your fingers, The moon and the stars, which you have ordained; What is man, that you are mindful of him? And the son of man that you dwell with him?".

    The Bible clearly teaches that mankind has the perfect example in Jesus and is to conform to his image. Consider some factors about Jesus that help with our own self-image. Jesus did not let his critics affect his self-image. Jesus also did not let his lack of material things affect his self-image. Peter even made a statement about Jesus to Cornelius that is a real key to self-image for us. Peter said of Jesus that, "he went about, doing good" (Acts 10:38).

    Yes, how we see oursleves is important, and we should endeavour to see ourselves as God sees us. Our self image absent from God is one of worthlessness. But our self image from God's point is one of value.
     
    #10 Johnv, Nov 22, 2002
  11. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Rev G, do you not like Adrian Rogers? I haven't heard much about him, and what little I did hear of him was good. Just curious.

    I don't much care for discussion along these lines, to be honest. I shudder whenever we criticize brethren. Rev Falwell, for example, has unfortunately put his foot in his mouth a few times lately, but I still have respect for him. So long as the TV preachers are (1) legitimately ordained, and (2) aren't doing Bakker/Swaggart actcs of sinful stupidity, then I tend to give these folks a fair amount of leeway.

    [ November 22, 2002, 07:57 PM: Message edited by: Johnv ]
     
    #11 Johnv, Nov 22, 2002
  12. Rev. G

    Rev. G New Member

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    He is a very fine preacher.

    My point in mentioning him is that he is a Southern Baptist (like Patterson, et al) - a member of a "Calvinistic" denomination in the sense that the roots of the denomination were Reformed - yet he is not "Calvinistic." This was just to demonstrate that although Schuller has a "Calvinistic" background he is not necessarily a "Calvinist." Please note I said nothing against anyone on the above posts (except Schuller).
     
    #12 Rev. G, Nov 22, 2002
  13. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    The problem I have with Adrian Rogers is that he is a fierce Calvinism basher. He recently was preaching on Romans chapter 9 on his radio show and he was, shall I say, downright mean toward the beliefs of his Calvinistic Southern Baptist brethren.

    Ken
     
    #13 KenH, Nov 22, 2002
  14. Rev. G

    Rev. G New Member

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    He didn't mind "us" when we were voting for him to be president of the SBC, or when we were voting for his friends to occupy the same position. :rolleyes:

    Rev. G
     
    #14 Rev. G, Nov 22, 2002
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