Another Gospel

[The Biblicist]

Gentleman,

The gospel of Jesus Christ is NOT about YOU or what YOU DO for Christ. Any gospel about YOU and what YOU DO for Christ is "another gospel."

The gospel of Jesus Christ is about Jesus Christ and what Christ did "for us" that we could not do for ourselves.

That is the simple difference between the gospel of Jesus Christ and "another gospel."

Any gospel of salvation that INCLUDES YOU AND YOUR WORKS for Christ is "another gospel."

 

[billwald]

You are right for the wrong reasons. The Gospel is that Jesus died for the sins of every person in the world. Period.

 

[The Biblicist]

You are right for the wrong reasons. The Gospel is that Jesus died for the sins of every person in the world. Period.

This is not about the extent of the atonement but rather about the sufficiency of the atonement to satisfy all of God's demands in and through the person of Christ or is there something missing that we must provide in or through our own person.

 

[Bob Hope]

Gentleman,

The gospel of Jesus Christ is NOT about YOU or what YOU DO for Christ. Any gospel about YOU and what YOU DO for Christ is "another gospel."

The gospel of Jesus Christ is about Jesus Christ and what Christ did "for us" that we could not do for ourselves.

That is the simple difference between the gospel of Jesus Christ and "another gospel."

Any gospel of salvation that INCLUDES YOU AND YOUR WORKS for Christ is "another gospel."

That makes no sense but I do understand why you would want to say it. Christ could not have explained it any better than He did himself in Revelation.



All this was written to churches, the professing believers.


--Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

--be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.


--To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna,


--Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.


--If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.


--So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

 

[The Biblicist]

That makes no sense but I do understand why you would want to say it. Christ could not have explained it any better than He did himself in Revelation.



All this was written to churches, the professing believers.

You are confusing getting to heaven with temporal consequences and eternal losses in heaven for disobedience. You are also confusing tares with the true seed as both are found in N.T. Congregations.

--Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

The figure of a "candlestick" represents them as a New Testament congregation acceptable in God's sight. To lose their "candlestick" has nothing to do with individual personal salvation but with the status of the whole assembly as a congregation recognized by Christ as His own.

--be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

He already confirmed their salvation status. However, what he is encouraging them to do is not "fear" persecution and physical death but to remain faithful in the face of physical death as a consequence of faithfulness. He cannot promise them they will escape death but on the contrary he asserts that death may be a real consequence of remaining faithful. He can promise them a "crown" in the life to come for faithfulness. Although he cannot promise them that physical death will not harm them he can promise they cannot be harmed by the second death, thus, they need not fear death as it will not bring any further harm.

He is not promising salvation conditioned upon not fearing physical death and only upon faithfulness to death. He is providing comfort in facing death and rewards for remaining faithful.

--To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna,

All Israel had access to manna as it fell freely from heaven in the reach of all Israelites. However, within the holy of holies there was a pot of manna that no one but those specially chosen by God could look upon - the High Preist. There are "saved" in the new heaven and earth that reside OUTSIDE the New Jerusalem on the new earth (Rev. 21:24) and there are those who are saved who rule over them as "kings" who have the privilege to bring their gifts into the New Jerusalem to the Lord (Rev. 21:24-25). Both are equally saved and both are in the new heaven and earth but some of these saved have a special calling and privilge and it is not based upon salvation but upon faithful service in this life.

--Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

He also says he will kill them if they don't repent. She is called "Jezebel." Jezebel in the Old Testament was a false religionist in the midst of God's people and she had 450 prophets of Baal who followed her into her religious fornication who also were lost people within the professing people of God. Likewise, New Testament churches have a mixture of lost and saved professors within their membership and their fruits make them manifest.

--If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Chastening is promised by Christ to those he loves (Heb. 12:5-10). Christ comes upon his people in chastening when they do not respond in obedience to His revealed will.

--So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Of course this is a figure of speech that simply means they are distasteful and like someone who drinks something unpleasant they spit it out. He is addressing the whole church and this action is the same in kind as taking their candlestick from them or rejecting them as His own congregation. There are a lot of these in our world with genuinely saved people in their midst but are nevertheless rejected by Christ as His congregations even though they claim to be His.

 

[percho]

Mark 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

John 3:5,6 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh;

1 Cor. 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Hebrews 2:3-5 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard [him]; God also bearing [them] witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will? For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.

Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Hebrews 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ;


What Son of Man has inherited all the Father owns? Was there a point in time when he inherited the inheritance?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Any gospel of salvation that INCLUDES YOU AND YOUR WORKS for Christ is "another gospel."

Yours, is the perfect definition of 'another Gospel' than that of Jesus Christ, because it is the definition of a hopeless, fruitless, powerless, FALSE Gospel.

Dr Walter again ---with his false Gospel again and every false thing about it again.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

This is not about the extent of the atonement but rather about the sufficiency of the atonement to satisfy all of God's demands in and through the person of Christ or is there something missing that we must provide in or through our own person.

A 'Gospel' without 'extent' would be a 'Gospel' of total insufficiency ---an insult to God and his proficiency.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Was there a point in time when he inherited the inheritance?

"That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you ... that ye may know what is ... THE RICHES OF THE GLORY OF HIS, INHERITANCE, IN THE SAINTS!"

The point in time when Christ inherited "HIS INHERITANCE IN THE SAINTS", was,

"... WHEN God RAISED Him from the dead SETTING Him at his Own Right Hand in His Divine Glory",
"WHEN", God's "saints"

"in Christ were CO-raised TOGETHER WITH Him". "God hath QUICKENED US TOGETHER WITH CHRIST ... and hath raised us up TOGETHER and made us SIT TOGETHER in heavenly loyalty IN CHRIST JESUS."

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

What Son of Man has inherited all the Father owns?

Jesus Christ the Son of God.

"God raising Christ from the dead ... set Him at his Own Right Hand ... far above _ALL_ principality and power and might and dominion and every name that is named not only in this world, but in that AGE WHICH IS TO COME; and HATH put _ALL_ things under his feet and given Him to be THE HEAD OVER _ALL_ things ...

... to the Church which is his Body. ...

... God gave Him to be THE FULLNESS OF GOD THE ALL IN ALL FULFILLING FULLNESS."

 

[The Biblicist]

A 'Gospel' without 'extent' would be a 'Gospel' of total insufficiency ---an insult to God and his proficiency.

I realize that, but I did not want to change the topic to argue over univesal or definit atonement and thus side track the issue.

 

[percho]

Acts 10:34-37 Then Peter opened [his] mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. The word which [he] sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all) That word, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;

Mark 1:14,15 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Hebrews 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard [him]; V5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. Was Paul one of them? Gal. 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. What? Acts 20:25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.

Now being Paul preached the same gospel that Jesus first began to preach, which was sent by God; Why did Paul put so much emphasis on the death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth?

 

[The Biblicist]

Acts 10:34-37 Then Peter opened [his] mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. The word which [he] sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all) That word, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;

Mark 1:14,15 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Hebrews 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard [him]; V5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. Was Paul one of them? Gal. 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. What? Acts 20:25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.

Now being Paul preached the same gospel that Jesus first began to preach, which was sent by God; Why did Paul put so much emphasis on the death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth?

The difference is between BEFORE versus AFTER the cross. The gospel preached BEFORE was progressive and being fulfilled while the gospel preached AFTER was fulfilled. His death was foretold clearly in the BEFORE gospel (Isa. 53; Psa. 22; etc.) but the MEANS of death was not made clear until it was progressively revealed.

 

[percho]

The difference is between BEFORE versus AFTER the cross. The gospel preached BEFORE was progressive and being fulfilled while the gospel preached AFTER was fulfilled. His death was foretold clearly in the BEFORE gospel (Isa. 53; Psa. 22; etc.) but the MEANS of death was not made clear until it was progressively revealed.

Therefore:

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

The cross being the means by which the kingdom could be brought forth?

The kingdom, which man, born of the flesh could not enter nor see, nor inherit?

There must be a new creation of man, the last Adam to initiate the kingdom of God?

Thus the resurrection of the Son of Man, Jesus the Christ the Son of God, the firstborn from the dead? And. Col. 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins: Through his death?
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Through his resurrection?


Can we look forward with confidence for this very same for ourselves because of this Gospel of the kingdom of God?


The law and the prophets [were] until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. Luke 16:16

 

[billwald]

>The law and the prophets [were] until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. Luke 16:16

AMEN!!!!!!! Including the 10 Commandments.

 

[The Biblicist]

Therefore:

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Read Mark 1:1-3 and you will see that the phrase "the kingdom of God" refers to the coming of the kingdom in the PERSON OF ITS KING rather than any earthly kingdom. He went before "HIM" announcing "HIM."

The cross being the means by which the kingdom could be brought forth?

No! The gospel of the coming King had been preached by every prophet since Abel (Acts 10:43) but with John the Baptist the tense had changed from "shall" come to "IS" at hand.

The cross being the means for providing atonement not the means to usher in the King or salvation as the SAME gospel had been preached before Christ came and received and remission of sins attained by faith in his name - Messiah - Acts 10:43; Heb. 4:2; Acts 26:22-23; etc.

The kingdom, which man, born of the flesh could not enter nor see, nor inherit?

Notice new birth was the prerequiste for entering and seeing the kingdom being referred to. He is referring to the promised kingdom that Christ would bring at his second coming. The prerequisite was new birth now for entering the kingdom later.

There must be a new creation of man, the last Adam to initiate the kingdom of God?

God's SPIRITUAL kingdom is immediate translation by new birth as we are translated into the kingdom of His dear Son by new birth. However, the future kingdom that Christ would bring at his second coming required new birth IN ADVANCE of seeing and entering it.

Thus the resurrection of the Son of Man, Jesus the Christ the Son of God, the firstborn from the dead? And. Col. 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins: Through his death?
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Through his resurrection?

He is the "firstborn" meaning the first in both time and position to experience COMPLETE GLORIFICATION of the body and thus the "firstfruit" of the resurrection yet to come in the future at His second return (I Cor. 15; 1 Thes. 4:13-17; etc.).

Can we look forward with confidence for this very same for ourselves because of this Gospel of the kingdom of God?

The Old Testament saints looked forward to it as well but they will not receive the promise of RESURRECTION until they experience it "WITH US" at the second coming of Christ (Heb. 11:39-40).

The law and the prophets [were] until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. Luke 16:16

All prophets prior to John used the present tense "shall" come in reference to the kingdom of God in the PERSON of its King which preceded the kingdom of God on earth as ushered in by its King. With John the kingdom of God in the person of its King "IS at hand" and in response to that message Jews who were looking to escape the secular rule of Rome were eager to "press into it" and that accounted for all the FALSE PROFESSORS who were flocking to Christ in order to particpate in a PRESENT RULE ON EARTH rather than to trust in Him as Savior from sin and enter into the SPIRITUAL kingdom by new birth as a prerequisite for the coming PHYSICAL kingdom at His coming.

 

[percho]

Hebrews 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard [him];

Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Is salvation found in those three places the same? Is there just one salvation?

Salvation is brought by grace. And that salvation brought by grace appeared at a specific moment in time. It was authored at the moment Jesus was said to be made (perfect or if you prefer, complete, or mature). What ever you want to fill in the blank with, that is the moment grace brought salvation. It was at the very moment God said, Thou art my Son this day have I begotten thee. Which was the moment when he, God the Father raised Jesus his Son from the dead no more to return to corruption. Acts 13:33,34

Prior to that moment Jesus of Nazareth was the only begotten of the Father, born of woman, born of the flesh who had died.

 

[The Biblicist]

Hebrews 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard [him];

Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Is salvation found in those three places the same? Is there just one salvation?

Salvation is found in the PERSON of Jesus Christ AND in his WORK as proclaimed in the gospel according to the eternal covenant of salvation. That has been true since Genesis 3;15 and that promised salvation as expressed in the gospel was received by faith then and now but its provision appeared in the PERSON and WORK of Jesus Christ when he became man and went to the cross and rose again from the grave.

 

[percho]

Salvation is found in the PERSON of Jesus Christ AND in his WORK as proclaimed in the gospel according to the eternal covenant of salvation. That has been true since Genesis 3;15 and that promised salvation as expressed in the gospel was received by faith then and now but its provision appeared in the PERSON and WORK of Jesus Christ when he became man and went to the cross and rose again from the grave.

Salvation, saved.

For the wages of sin death; but the gift of God eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Here is what man does. For the wages of sin death;
Here is what God does. but the gift of God eternal life. Salvation from the above.
How did salvation, the gift of life from death, come through Jesus Christ our Lord?

Did Jesus ever sin? Did Jesus deserve the wages paid? What did Jesus do?
Did Jesus through the things he suffered learn obedience and become obedient unto death even the death of the cross? Was this obedience, faith? ὑπακοὴν πίστεως Both words nouns. Is that not what Jesus was ὑπακοὴν πίστεως unto death even the death of the cross?

Was it to this dead Son of him, that God the Father gave the grace of life through the fatih by which we become heirs of?

For by grace are ye saved through the faith; and that not of yourselves: The gift of God: Eph 2:8

1 Peter 3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with [them] according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.
Titus 3:7 That being justified by his grace, (That was given to his Son Jesus) we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

 

[Yeshua1]

You are right for the wrong reasons. The Gospel is that Jesus died for the sins of every person in the world. Period.

NOT true, else all would be saved and reconciled back to God thru it!

Gospel is that God became a man, died on behalf of provoding satisfaction towards God for Sin debt owed to him, and rose from the dead as proof sacrifce acceptable to God, and all those who place faith in jesus will receive full justification towards God immediatantly!