Featured Apostles, prophets and manifestations of the Holy Spirit - Part 2

This is a continuation of the previous thread.

 

What is the scripture for this assertion?

I can’t help but notice you almost never cite scripture. If you are someone devoted to the scriptures, it would be second nature to you.

 

Thank you for actually using scripture to respond!

This passage says nothing about the canon of scripture, much less, that it is closed. It does touch on your actual previous assertion that there are no prophets today as in the Old Testament. I didn’t know what you meant by your assertion, so I can agree with you that John the Baptist was the last of the Old Testament style of prophets (see Matthew 11:11-14), but there are prophets in the New Testament era, given just like apostles, pastors, teachers, and evangelists (see Ephesians 4:11-13) that are given for the work of ministry until fullness of Christ.

 

The Old Testament style prophets are no more. The least of the Kingdom in the New Testament era is greater than John the Baptist (Matthew 11:11), but that does not exclude prophets in the New Testament era at all.

I also see that you have slipped back into thinking of spiritual gifts as an "office" and not an enabling. I have NEVER been talking about "offices," whatever you think that means in the New Testament era.

The New Testament explicitly mentions the gifts and manifestation of prophet in all three lists of spiritual gifts in the New Testament. It is listed in the ministry gifts (Ephesians 4:11), the motivational gifts (Romans 12:6), and the manifestation gifts (1 Corinthians 12:10) -- the only gift to be mentioned in all three lists. Moreover, Paul exhorted his readers to desire to prophesy (1 Corinthians 14:1). Unless you are making the assertion that there are no callings and spiritual gifts anymore (including pastors and teachers), then you are going to have to come to terms with the New Testament gift of prophets/prophecy.

You have provided no scripture for that assertion. Moreover, you are ignoring (I think, deliberately), that there were more apostles than The Twelve and Paul. Look at the discussion in Part One of this thread and refreshed your failing memory. It was address at least five or six times, since you kept ignoring the scriptures.

 

I understand the meaning of 1 Corinthians 13:10 to be the fullness of the Kingdom of God, for we will have no need for those gifts.

 

I agree that the Twelve played a special role.

Yes, no one after Mattias became part of The Twelve. Paul, Barnabas and others were not part of The Twelve. They were regular apostles like we have today.

Very specifically, what do you mean by "revelations?" We know that God speaks to people and gives direction and insight. We know that God calls people to do certain things. That is all revelation.

Again, you'll need to explain what you mean by "additional revelations from God."

I believe you are making an assertion that the Bible does not make. I try to avoid doing that myself, so unless you can show me scripture that makes that claim, I will not give assent to your assertion. Please provide scripture to demonstrate that the canon of scripture is complete.

 

(1) You have unbiblically connected the “sign gifts” as solely channeled through the apostles. Was Luke a liar when he recorded that Philip THE DEACON was performing signs among the Samaritans (Luke 8:5-8)?

If you claim Philip didn’t exercise the sign gifts you are demonstrating, AGAIN, that you reject the scripture when it conflicts with your pronouncements. My guess is that you will ignore this and try to change the subject because of your arrogance.

(2) You are still obsessing over apostles writing scripture, even though it was not necessarily evidence for an apostle, and not all apostles did it.

(3) You have no basis to make this claim since you have demonstrated that you don’t know the scriptures, generally refuse to cite them to make your case, and simply repeat your assertions to the detriment of everyone here.

 

That is obvious. The Twelve were symbolic of the Twelve Tribes of Israel, and a direct connection with the earthly ministry of Jesus.

Paul did not claim to be one of The Twelve. He was like Barnabas, Andronicus, Junia, Silas, Apollos, and likely Timothy.

Yes, John was apparently the last of The Twelve.

You clearly do not know Christian history or language. For example, in terms of using the term "apostle," Saint Patrick was the Apostle of Ireland andSaint Boniface was the Apostle to the Germanic peoples. The Roman Catholic Church's fundamental claim is apostolic succession through the Bishop of Rome (aka, the Pope). Moreover, our term missionary comes from the Latin word missio, which is the Latin equivalent of apostle. And that's just on the side of the Western Church!

You are flat out wrong. Moreover, there is no "Charismatic Chaos Movement" except in the mind of John MacArthur and the ones who accept his opinions are pure doctrine.

 

No, he simply was not. That is extremely plain in scripture. Apparently you don't like scripture having authority over your opinions.

What is your standard, since scripture is obviously not?

[/QUOTE]...as he was just as much an Apostle in the sense of getting and recording down to us inspired scriptures as peter and John![/QUOTE]
I agree that Paul was just as much an apostle as The Twelve (like the other New Testament apostles beyond The Twelve and Paul), but you are apparently fixated on the unbiblical theory that only The Twelve could write scripture.

 

I'm not sure to which one of us you are speaking, but I think you are exactly right that Paul is an apostle. As far as I know, no one has claimed he was not. But Paul was not part of The Twelve (scripture has been cited many times before). He was among the other apostles of the New Testament era, like Barnabas, Silas, James (the brother of Jesus), Apollos, Andronicus and Junia, etc.

That is a popular opinion (usually raised because of the assumption that there are only supposed to be 12 apostles), but Peter and the 11 were not reproved for appointing Matthias through the casting of lots (a standard way of divining God's will prior to Pentecost). It seems clear to me that Mattias was one of The Twelve, and he had followed Jesus from the very beginning of His ministry in Galilee.

Sure, no argument here. Other apostles may have also been called in a similar way, and it is just not recorded.

Okay.

Yes, exactly. Is a reference to the end of the age when all will be set right. There will be no need for prophecy, or missionaries (apostles), or special words of knowledge.