Are Christian believers in America being persecuted?

Oh, and EL911: I've just returned from vacation, so I didn't get to address the errors you made about homosexuality, mental disease, etc. in your other post. However, I will note that the "reference" that you said jaycrwu provided actually refuted your point - it did not support it. jaycrwu's post was an exercise in irony for you - but it flew over your head, evidently.

Here's a quote from the link:
http://www.apa.org/pubinfo/answers.html#mentalillness

 

Oh, please!

Christians in America don't even have a clue what persecution is.

Go ask a Christian in China, the Sudan or Saudi Arabia if they think we're persecuted.

To say that we're persecuted is a slap in the face to the millions who have died for the cause of Christ.

Mike

http://www.keylife.org

 

I think that is confusing whether or not there is persecutions, with the severity of the persecutions.

When someone is not hired for a job because they are christian and go to church is persecution. Even if it is not to the death, or as severe as christians in other countries suffer.
This has happened to both my sons.

 

I think that is confusing whether or not there is persecutions, with the severity of the persecutions.

When someone is not hired for a job because they are christian and go to church is persecution. Even if it is not to the death, or as severe as christians in other countries suffer.
This has happened to both my sons.</font>[/QUOTE]Katie,

While I'm sorry to hear about your sons, that's still not persecution.

Mike

 

It is illegal but I think they'd have much better success with the ACLJ .

The ACLJ seems to be much more sympathetic to religious liberty cases.

http://www.aclj.org

Mike

 

I think that is confusing whether or not there is persecutions, with the severity of the persecutions.

When someone is not hired for a job because they are christian and go to church is persecution. Even if it is not to the death, or as severe as christians in other countries suffer.
This has happened to both my sons.</font>[/QUOTE]1. Let's hear the circumstances.

2. I assume that you would be against the religious test that was used by the a public school board in Mississippi.

A summary:
http://www.pfaw.org/issues/religious_freedom/herdahl.html

That's enough to give you an idea of the issue at hand. Here is what the court wrote about one particularly flagrant violation of the Constitution - a "Bible class" that the local school district was trying to sneak into the public school:

So my question is: are you in favor of the behavior described above, in the court document?

 

Do you not believe there are varying degrees and forms of persecution? Or must everyone persecuted be killed?
What do you define as persecution?

 

Sounds like maybe your son's buddy was wrong, then. The boss' whole family is involved in church, right? Then clearly the statement that he "doesn't like people who go to church" can't be true.

Maybe he doesn't like your particular kind of church. Could that be it? What about your son's buddy - does that buddy go to church?

It was a court case about a school in Mississippi that was hiring people based upon their religion. I was curious what you thought about that practice.

 

Ok! well I agree. I am a student at a local community college and last semester I had to take poly sci 111. and My instructor and everyone in my class was extremely liberal and it made me to be the odd ball. I tell you what... I had to stick up for Jesus more than once in that class because they were putting him down. if I didn't that would not make me a good Christian"Whoever acknowleges me before men, I will also acknowlege before my Father in heaven."(Matthew 10:32)And I was hated and even threatend. I was really afraid.

 

John -

Do you really need to argue every semantic and statement to make a point? You asked for the circumstances and Katie provided them. Your post is obviously just an attempt to pick a fight and I don't appreciate it in my forum.

There are plenty of more concrete issues for you to debate in this forum without deliberately trying to agitate another member over a vernacular that you, as a West Virginian, can certainly understand. It is not showing your intelligence, it is showing your attitude.

My hope is that Katie will not even respond to your adolescent bullying.

Clint Kritzer
Moderator

 

I think that is confusing whether or not there is persecutions, with the severity of the persecutions.

When someone is not hired for a job because they are christian and go to church is persecution. Even if it is not to the death, or as severe as christians in other countries suffer.
This has happened to both my sons.</font>[/QUOTE]Where on a job application is the section listed religion? He didn't put this in his resume' did he?

 

John -

Do you really need to argue every semantic and statement to make a point? You asked for the circumstances and Katie provided them. Your post is obviously just an attempt to pick a fight and I don't appreciate it in my forum.

There are plenty of more concrete issues for you to debate in this forum without deliberately trying to agitate another member over a vernacular that you, as a West Virginian, can certainly understand. It is not showing your intelligence, it is showing your attitude.

My hope is that Katie will not even respond to your adolescent bullying.

Clint Kritzer
Moderator</font>[/QUOTE]Katie said that her son was denied employment based upon church affiliation. I find that hard to believe, given the evidence she has presented so far.

I find it far more likely that her son was denied employment for some other reason - perhaps he simply wasn't qualified. When people lose jobs, promotions, scholarships, etc. they often rationalize that loss by making it a defect in the *other* person - "I didn't get the job because I'm black", or "I didn't get the job because they don't like women."

Or perhaps her son had a reputation from other employers or word-of-mouth, such as a habit of nonstop evangelization of coworkers in the workplace. That would be a more likely reason to be denied employment, than for merely being affiliated with a church. I find that hypothesis more believable, in light of the employer's family was church-going. And that idea would also square up (somewhat) with the reason that her son's buddy gave. I've been around people like that - people who thought that the workplace was just another "mission field" and they let their zeal get in the way of doing their job. My father (who was a deputy sheriff in W Va) had to deal with another deputy sheriff who was a classic example of this problem. In fact, he would kneel and pray at an accident scene first, before dealing with the wounded passengers or the damaged property. As you can imagine, at an accident scene every second counts. This religious behavior became an obstacle in performing his job and a safety hazard as well.

That's why I asked her about the son's buddy (who already worked there) - if that friend was *also* a church-goer, then it would prove that he doesn't discriminate against christians at all. Do I know what the real motive of the employer was? No. But in order to accept her claim of discrimination, I have to ask questions. And if she (or her son) decide to get an attorney or contact the ACLU, they'll be asking the very same questions that I am asking now - trust me.

So as you can see, I have reasons for what I ask. But if you are seriously trying to cut down on posts that are nothing but attempts to "pick a fight", I can suggest several dozen other such posts (and particular posters) for you to focus on. There's been a lot of slander and rudeness by so-called christians around here that moderators have failed to address.

[ March 26, 2002, 09:20 PM: Message edited by: Big John Trapper ]

 

Clint, your right. I'm not going to.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't something like 80% of Americans identify themselves as Christian? Including, I believe, every federal elected official and most of the state ones. And virtually every appointed position?

If Christians are being persecuted, it seems rather obvious that it's Christians who are persecuting them.

Taking Katie's story at face value, her Christian son was rejected for being Christian by his Christian boss.

I'm not sure it's persecution when you're doing it to yourself. I'm not sure what it is.

 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;My hope is that Katie will not even respond to your adolescent bullying.&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;

The purpose of the forum is discussion. John's comments hardly reach the level of bullying.

 

Well, at my school, a Tech school, things are nearly the opposite, at least in my lower-level courses. One mention of not believing in a god nearly makes the whole room cringe. I don't even bring up my religious beliefs because it seems that everyone I know is a Christian.

The issue isn't just between the Christians and non-Christians. It's between almost all groups of somethings and non-somethings. The religious persecution even takes place within the Christian community. Christians love to persecute each other. Perhaps the most of the Christian persecutions actually come from within the church. Wouldn't that be an interesting scenario? That's where I see Christians receiving the most fighting and name-calling.