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Are KJV's italicized words inspired?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Logos1560, Apr 7, 2005.

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  1. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    KJV-only author Paul Heaton wrote: "I am convinced that the italicized words are just as correct and inspired as the words in plain print" (WHAT ABOUT THOSE ITALICIZED WORDS, p. 2).

    Paul Heaton wrote: "The italicized words are words 'inspired' by the Holy Ghost, through the [KJV] translators, for the purpose of understanding and 'correctness' of the Word of God" (p. 22).

    Gail Riplinger wrote: "The veracity of the italics in the KJV have been proven true to such a degree that this author feels no need to pick them out and set them apart as uninspired" (BLIND GUIDES, p. 41).
     
    #1 Logos1560, Apr 7, 2005
  2. av1611jim

    av1611jim New Member

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    Take it up with them...
    :rolleyes:

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
    #2 av1611jim, Apr 7, 2005
  3. mcgyver

    mcgyver New Member

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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] Sorry, this just struck me as funny...no offense!
     
    #3 mcgyver, Apr 7, 2005
  4. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

    Here, Jesus was quoting this verse from Deuteronomy:

    Deu 8:3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.

    The word 'word' in Deuteronomy is italicized, indicating it was not part of the original text. It is not italicized in Matthew. What does this have to do with anything? I don't know, but I'll keep the italicized words, myself.
     
    #4 James_Newman, Apr 7, 2005
  5. icthus

    icthus New Member

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    The simple rule is, if the words are absent in the original, how can they be inspired if added later by a translator?
     
    #5 icthus, Apr 7, 2005
  6. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    So did Jesus add the word?
     
    #6 James_Newman, Apr 7, 2005
  7. Scott J

    Scott J Active Member
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    icthus, There are a number of people who have or do post here that do not accept that simple rule.

    If everyone would simply accept that the words of the KJV are not inspired, it would go a long way toward peace on this issue. For some though, they cannot see how a translation can accurately reflect an inspired original message without having inspired words.
     
    #7 Scott J, Apr 7, 2005
  8. Scott J

    Scott J Active Member
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    Possibly. I think the NT gives us several examples that demonstrate that the Word of God can be accurately expressed by more than one set of words whether in the same language or different ones.

    The quotes say the same things in different ways. Likewise, I would contend that different translations yield the same message using different wording.
     
    #8 Scott J, Apr 7, 2005
  9. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Or maybe He was quoting from the Septuagint:

    "And he afflicted thee and straitened thee with hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thy fathers knew not; that he might teach thee that man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God shall man live."
     
    #9 rsr, Apr 7, 2005
  10. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    One example even if valid (and even several such examples) would not justify the broad-sweeping
    generalization that all the italicized words in the KJV are inspired.

    One serious problem with the statements made by Heaton and Riplinger is that they at least imply if not assume an unscriptural claim of direct inspiration in 1611.

    Why would a 100% directly inspired translation need to have any words at all in italics since it
    is being claimed that every word in the translation is inspired?

    Glenn Conjurske, a KJV defender, observed: "If the translation, no less than the original, is verbally inspired of God, then it were both unnecessary and impertinent to set off some of those words from the rest, as though they were not of equal authority with the others." (OLDE PATHS AND ANCIENT LANDMARKS, Oct., 1994, p. 224).
     
    #10 Logos1560, Apr 8, 2005
  11. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    Then perhaps it was unnecessary, maybe even impertinent. I certainly don't change the way I speak the italicized words, nor do I make any real distinction when I read them. They are all the words of God as far as I am concerned.
     
    #11 James_Newman, Apr 8, 2005
  12. Keith M

    Keith M New Member

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    Does this mean that the KJV translators actually corrected the Word of God? Was it wrong before the KJV? Those must have been some really holy men to be able to correct what the original writers had written!
     
    #12 Keith M, Apr 8, 2005
  13. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    For those who believe the AV1611 was "reinspired", then all of the KJV - including italicized words and apocryphal entries - would de facto be inspired.

    Of course, they are not. And only words that are faithful to the originally-inspired Word of God in any translation may derive inspiration from that connection.
     
    #13 Dr. Bob, Apr 9, 2005
  14. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    Concerning the use of italics by the KJV translators, F. H. A. Scrivener wrote: "There is really no serious attempt to avoid palpable inconsistencies on the same page, in the same verse; and those who have gone over this branch of their work will be aware that even comparative uniformity can be secured only in one way, by the repeated comparison of the version with the sacred originals" (AUTHORIZED EDITION OF THE ENGLISH BIBLE, p. 63).
     
    #14 Logos1560, Apr 10, 2005
  15. AVL1984

    AVL1984 <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

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    Aw, yes, Dr. Bob...the RE-inspired version in the form of the KJV! Isn't it great? ;) New revelation, continued revisions and all! :rolleyes: :eek:
     
    #15 AVL1984, Apr 11, 2005
  16. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Wonder what people woulda thought of the AV had those words NOT been italicized?

    I believe most people have the common sense to know the direct, literal translation of one entire language into another language is impossible. Greek into English is no exception, of course. Greek depends much more upon word endings to make sense than English does, while English is much more dependent upon the order of words in a sentence. Plus, English has many more "helper words", conjunctions, punctuation, adjectives, etc. than does either Greek or Hebrew.

    No matter how well-versed in Greek an English-user may become, he/she tends to think in English. Bible translators are no different. if their first language is/was English & they're making an English translation, they're thinking in English and therefore try to render their translations into understandable English. If that means adding words to clarify their belief in what a certain passage means in English, they add words as is necessary to convey those thoughts. I believe that's true, whether it's the Bible, or The Iliad being translated.

    We must remember that NONE OF THIS IS LOST ON GOD, and He sees that WE can understand His written word. I believe the Greeks had the same prob when trying to understand HEBREW Scriptures.
     
    #16 robycop3, Apr 11, 2005
  17. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    Len Smith, a KJV-only author, wrote: "Notice the words in italics in the KJV in 2 Sa 21:19. They are in italics because the translators added them under the inspiration of God" (AGE OF REASON, chapter D22, p. 11).
     
    #17 Logos1560, Apr 16, 2005
  18. kjv66

    kjv66 New Member

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    At least the translators of the KJV had the honesty and integrity to italicize those words which were added for clarity.

    One question for those of you obsessed with attacking the KJV. Did the authors of your preferred translation point out the fact that they did the same?
     
    #18 kjv66, Apr 17, 2005
  19. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    Did the KJV translators always put words they added in italics? Are there any words in present editions of the KJV that were not in italics in the 1611 edition?
     
    #19 Logos1560, Apr 17, 2005
  20. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    One answer for
    those obsessed with attacking the
    new King James Version (nKJV):
    Yes, the nKJV italicizes words not
    supported directly by the Greek but necessary
    for the English user to understand the
    message of God's Holy Written Word, the
    Holy Bible.
     
    #20 Ed Edwards, Apr 17, 2005
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