Featured Are musical styles amoral? Round 2.

I would tend to believe that in most cases music without words is amoral. IOW, music per se is neither inherently "moral" nor "immoral" in the sense of how the Bible would define those two terms.

To me, it all depends on just how a particular musical work is used.

A case in point taken from the classical music genre follows:

The second movement marked adagio of Haydn's so-called "Emperor" string quartet (Opus 76, #3), has a melody that went on to become sort of the national anthem for the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Eventually this melody morphed into what's now known as the national anthem of Germany [Deutschland, Deutschland, Ober Alles --- "Germany, Germany, Over All"].

As such, this tune was one of the favorite songs of the intensely anti-Semitic Adolph Hitler---the person who was ultimately responsible for the murder of millions of Jews and untold numbers of innocent civilians and military personnel in World War 2.

On the other hand, this very same melody became the tune for a famous hymn, "Glorious Things of Thee Are Spoken."

So....was this music that Haydn composed inherently "moral" or was it inherently "immoral"?

 

This is a great question .... and I hope my response helps you in a small, but significant way!

I do agree that people can come under the influence of the music they listen to! For more than 27 years, my wife and I had a very popular music ministry, here in the Southern California area! We were scheduled for almost every Friday or Saturday evening, and either Sunday morning or evening.

What made our ministry so popular was our ability to rewrite the words to classic oldies but goodies. We were told at every ministry date, that from the first song, most of the people were hooked, and they found the familiarity of the tunes with uplifting words that praised the Lord and ministered in its message, was what had people clapping their hands and stomping their feet, and from the first song to the last, with my testimony placed right before the last song, we were seeing the alters filled up every time we played.

Be it a church, church ministry and outreach group, Christian school, youth camp, or men's and women's ministry groups like Aglow and Full Gospel Businessman; our ministry successfully crossed over denominational lines, with ease.

I have to say that people do get caught up in the music they listen to, and if it has a Christ centered message, no matter what it is, it can reach hearts and break down walls, which in turn allows the Holy Spirit to freely convict and prompt the individual to decide to turn and follow Jesus!

I honestly believe that if the message is good, within the music presented, it can reach people for Jesus. O music was as much fun as it was convicting, but more importantly, it opened the door to my testimony, the one I finally wrote a book about, and it was spiritually effective.

That is my opinion, and it comes from personal experience!

Of course, had it not been for the background tapes of these songs, we'd never have been so successful! We did play with a live band on ocassion, and I loved that because of the freedom to take liberties with the songs that a background tape doesn't allow! And the bands, usually the worship team band from the churches we returned to, loved to play for us too!

Of course, Im not into the rap or hip hop stuff. But, if it has an audience and the fruit is evidenced, than again, who am I to judge it! If it reaches the heart and turns people around for the Kingdom, more power to it!

 

Again, it is a personal thing ....

I happen to love my music experiences when words are not used. In my case, all those tunes from my era are soothing and help me to relax. In fact, I have a fur disk set of all the songs from the fifties and sixties that were classified as instrumental hits! They in no way give me evil thoughts, or amoral/immoral thoughts. They are just something that relax and soothe me, and in a way, take me back to times where things were not as bad as they are today!

 

No. Music is an intelligent act. It is a mode of human interaction. All acts are either good or evil.

 

While I was quite active in the previous threads on this subject, following this post I likely won't post much if at all in this thread this time around. I'm attending classes now, and prefer to spend the free time I get doing other things.


Would say that in order for one to make a solid Biblical case against music, they would need to find a passage where the context is specifically about what music is and is not considered appropriate.
The ones I see cited here, especially in the last two paragraphs, are not specifically about music. Or, more correctly, the driving point of the passage isn't about what music is and is not acceptable.

The first passage cited, I Samuel 10--
That the prophets would be playing music was part of the description telling Saul what to look for. It has little if anything to do with the passage otherwise.

The passage cited in I Samuel 16--
Well, yes, some music can be very calming. Here's something to consider: perhaps it was moreso the calming/relaxing effect the music had on Saul's anxiety that allowed the demon to leave for a short time, as opposed to the idea that demons don't like holy music. We aren't even told whether the music David was playing or not was necessarily worship/praise music--it might have just been some pleasant compositions he came up with.

The passage cited from Exodus 32--
Again, the music had very little to do with the passage, other than that Moses and Joshua noticed it. Obviously they were singing praises to a false god--or so it is safe to assume anyway--and obviously that's wrong. But otherwise, nothing in the passage infers that the music itself (apart from the words) was considered evil. The point is that the people were worshiping a false god, not that they were playing demon music.
(Also, "noise" doesn't have to be in a negative context, especially considering the usage of words change over time and how people spoke back when the KJV was translated. Any sound, pleasant or not, good or bad, can be described as a noise.)

The passage cited from Isaiah 14--
Would say this is purely descriptive language, ie, creating a setting, mood, in order to get a point across. Once again, the context is not music itself.

I think the author is specifically missing the point of the passage in Amos 5. Think about it. What is God displeased about in this chapter, what's the context?
Let's refer to the verse in Samuel that reads "Obedience is better than sacrifice." This doesn't mean that God hates sacrifice, but that the thing that truly matters is the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
From my reading of the verses in Amos, and a peak at the entire chapter, it appears to have a similar context there. It seems to be saying "You may be doing all of this, but if you don't really mean it, it's pointless and You're not obeying Me."
Makes me think of Revelation 3:15-16. "I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth."


Thus I do not see how these passages infer that it's the music style that's the problem rather than the way it is used.


Music affecting people's moods/the Holy Spirit speaking through music--true, it is the purpose of music to express moods and emotions, just as any medium of art. (And I'll go ahead and add that negative themes have a legitimate place in art as well. They can be present and have a purpose in being present without actually promoting things that are wrong.)

I've seen God use music both to speak to me, and others. This includes hymns, Southern gospel, CCM, or even the harder stuff that mainstream CCM doesn't really get into for the most part. I find "Beautiful Scars" by Disciple to be a very worshipful song. (And yes, I know the difference between enjoying the music and being moved by the Holy Spirit through it.)

 

Good observations and analysis. Thanks for sharing.

 

We had a Christian rapper in our services today and were greatly edified by his ministry.

Music is not immoral.

 

This thread is a prime example of how people go way off the ranch with inane ideas that have no basis in fact. Next debate: Does God hate Microsoft Windows.

 

I've re-read the opening post three times; and I have to say, it's the most amazing example of isogesis I've seen.

 

You probably mean eisegesis, and yes, I agree.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/eisegesis

 

You are correct; I stand corrected.

 

Probably so to be honest. I hear he likes Linux.

 

Probably. I mean, what all good, all knowing, all powerful Being allows Windows 8.0 to be released to the general public and while also letting the Office Suite be the primary tool for businesses across the world.



I did have a fundamentalist, in one of my former churches, who was convinced the Apple Logo was a sign of Satan...the bite mark and all.

 

That reminds me...I once heard a wacky preacher say that the old Lucent logo was a Satanic ring of fire...and that the company name was short for "Lucifer's Enterprise".
CLICK HERE to see this evil design. Haha.

 

The op has stretch marks all over it. Good grief! I think someone has been reading too much of Bill Gothard's rubbish.

 

Recent sermon by the President of Baptist College of Ministry:

05/04/2014, Dr. Wayne Van Gelderen, Jr., Ephesians 5:19, "Spiritual Music"

@33:30

"We've got to be very careful not to have the worship of the golden-calf-type music in our lives. Anything that reflects this world.

You think about it, music of this world really does reflect the religions of this world.

In the Orient, the dissonant and unresolved is like Buddhism and others is that haunting religion that goes from cycle to cycle with nothing really meaningful.

Or you have the pulsating rhythm of tribal music which has the supernatural passions of the cultic rites and Satanic rites.

Or in the Western world, our humanism and sensuality with the seduction and suggestiveness of our music.

Make no mistake nothing is neutral, and music is usually called, is a call to worship one way or the other and Satan has been a master in the Western world of combining music really from different cultures to bring in that kind of music in which Satan can easily cause us to forget God and do what we want to do."