Are Non-Christians Saved?

[amity]

Don't mean to seem rude, but I have to get off to get ready for church, and I doubt I can post anything tomorrow.

 

[beloved57]

Rom 10:14

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

This verse has reference to bringing the elect the good news of their already accomlished salvation mam, Just like God sent peter to corny, not to make him get saved , but to announce it to him..

 

[Amy.G]

B57, I noticed in your profile for "home church" you listed none. I think it would do you a lot of good to find a church and get some discipling.

 

[canadyjd]

13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Notice, it was their salvation before they believed, God gave them faith to trust that it was so.

There is no indication of salvation prior to belief in this passage. Eph. 1:13 "In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation --having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise."

Notice they were not sealed with Holy Spirit until after they believed. Do you maintain you are saved prior to the indwelling of Holy Spirit?

I notice you continually refuse to address passages of scripture that clearly say "confess", "believe" and you "will be saved". Showing clearly that salvation comes after believing/faith.

Why won't you address the passages?

peace to youraying:

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

B57, I noticed in your profile for "home church" you listed none. I think it would do you a lot of good to find a church and get some discipling.

Amen, Amy! :jesus:

 

[Amy.G]

This verse has reference to bringing the elect the good news of their already accomlished salvation mam, Just like God sent peter to corny, not to make him get saved , but to announce it to him..

If we're saved before we know we're saved, then it doesn't matter if someone tells us we're saved. In fact, nothing matters. Forget Bible study, forget good works, forget witnessing. Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die! :tonofbricks:

 

[beloved57]

B57, I noticed in your profile for "home church" you listed none. I think it would do you a lot of good to find a church and get some discipling.

Amy thanks but no thanks, church is nothing but a religous God forsaken institution. And I would advise you to come out of the whore church..

Rev 18

1And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.

2And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

3For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

4And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Gods true people will not be in organzed religon when christ comes..Trust me..

 

[DHK]

cand jay says
Notice paul tells them that the word was already in their heart

What did he mean by that ? He meant that they had been already regenerated by the word of God, thats the only way it could be already in their heart. The spoken word was their waiting for the preached word.

The emphasis in the verse is on the phrase "nigh thee." It is a quote from Deu.30:14. "In their heart" was an expression that simply meant close to the mind that they were able to think or meditate on it. In no way was it referring to regeneration. That is a giant leap for mankind (or rather the Calvinist).

The word for word is rhema and it is also used in 1 pet

But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Here is the verse in Young's Literal Translation:

Romans 10:8 But what doth it say? `Nigh thee is the saying--in thy mouth, and in thy heart:' that is, the saying of the faith, that we preach;

The romans paul was preaching to, had already been spoken to by the eternal word, which is christ, and the gospel is also the word that is preached to them.

No, The word, as Young puts it, "the saying" is a quotation from Deu.30:14. It was the Torah; the words of Moses, the Law. Paul goes from the OT Scripture to the NT message. He says "that is the word of faith which we preach." Here it is in the OT, the gospel. It is in the OT. It is near you, in your mouth and in your heart. And yet it is the gospel which we preach. Christ is in the OT concealed; the NT revealed.

Regeneration comes before faith , and regeneration is part of salvation ! God regenerates all those who are saved by the death of christ....

No regeneration does not come before faith. That is an impossibility. The very Scripture that you quote denies that.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Believe...and thou shalt be saved. And don't try the grammar thing on me. You need to learn English.

 

[amity]

B57, I noticed in your profile for "home church" you listed none. I think it would do you a lot of good to find a church and get some discipling.

Yes, Beloved57, come to MY church! You would feel right at home!

 

[Amy.G]

Amy thanks but no thanks, church is nothing but a religous God forsaken institution. And I would advise you to come out of the whore church..

Gods true people will not be in organzed religon when christ comes..Trust me..

Well, this explains it all. No thanks. I will stay in my loving and God worshiping church.

 

[Amy.G]

Amity, I noticed in your profile you stated "I hope I go to heaven". Care to explain?

 

[canadyjd]

How do you figure that? Peter seems to be recognizing his salvation before he has preached to him? And also makes the point that this is no proselyte.

It sounds to me like they already believe!

Except I do not agree that we are saved eternally by hearing the gospel. The gospel only brings salvation to light, i.e. lets us know about it.

Of good grief!

Acts 11:12-14, Peter reporting what happened when he went to Cornelius' house after his messengers had come to get him.

"The Spirit told me to go with them without misgivings. These six brethren also went with me and we entered the man's house. (13) And he (Cornelius) reported to us how he had seen an angel standing in his house, and saying, 'Send to Joppa and have Simon, who is also called Peter, brought here; (14) and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household."

Notice the necessity of the words which Peter spoke (if you read 10:34-43 you will see a clear presentation of the Gospel) to bring salvation to him (Cornelius).

Notice "you will be saved" is a future tensed verb. That means he didn't have salvation when the angel of God spoke to him. The angel of God doesn't say, "you will realize you are already saved", he says "you will be saved." When? When they hear the gospel and believe in Jesus Christ.

peace to youraying:

 

[BobRyan]

Amy thanks but no thanks, church is nothing but a religous God forsaken institution. And I would advise you to come out of the whore church..

Well at least this explains "some" of the vitriol generated by B57

 

[canadyjd]

Notice paul tells them that the word was already in their heart

What did he mean by that ? He meant that they had been already regenerated by the word of God, thats the only way it could be already in their heart. The spoken word was their waiting for the preached word.

Paul defines what he meant by the word already in their hearts, it is the "word of faith which we are preaching".

notice "confess", "believe" and "you will be saved". That is a future tense verb. The salvation comes after the confess and believing.

The word for word is rhema and it is also used in 1 pet

But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.


The romans paul was preaching to, had already been spoken to by the eternal word, which is christ, and the gospel is also the word that is preached to them.

This is simply wrong. The word for the Eternal Christ is "Logos" not "rhema". "rhema" refers to the content of the spoken word. Both in Romans and I Pet, it refers to the gospel.

There is no mention of the eternal "Logos" speaking to the people in Romans 10 prior to salvation. You are just putting it in to fit what you want it to say.

peace to youraying:

 

[BobRyan]

Okay, now we are talking.

Cornelius had to subscribe to the state religion of Rome in order to be a centurion. I think to state that he was a worshipping only of the "unknown god" is a bit of a stretch not supported by scripture. He was an adherent of the state religion, else not a centurion. How over time his beliefs evolved is the interesting question.

About the OT figures, and there are a lot, yes, though nominally something else, they did know the one true God. How? God must have taught them Himself. They did not have access to God's word.

I myself as fully persuaded that there are saved children of God among the Jews, as well as among every other religious grouping, so no argument there.

The gospels point to Roman officials that worshipped the one true God as does the case in Acts 11. There is no statement at all that Cornelius was in fact worshipping false God's. And there was NO requirement that Roman soldiers worshiip any one god for Rome HAD NO single god that it worshipped. The cult of emperor worship was not in the form of a standing order that all Roman soldiers had to continually worship the Emperor -- though you seem to assume that this was the case.

The text does not give any support to the guesswork that Cornelius was no longer a Roman official after Peter's visit OR that he was worshipping idols BEFORE Peter visited.

But my question "remains" -- Cornelius at best was a believer in the God of the Bible - but not a Christian and not an in-the-flesh Jew. So was he saved?

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobRyan
You are missing the point. Christians on this very board decry loudly the acts of the Catholic church in the dark ages. And when a Jim Jones group springs up - Christians denounce that loudly too as well. Whe violent groups rise up and commit criminal acts other Christian groups denounce them very loudly.

So do Muslims decry acts of violence.

It would have been nice at that point to "prove it".

What we DID see was singing and dancing in the streets in Muslim nations when the Towers in New York fell.

But "large muslim demonstrations AGAINST the radical violent militant Islamic fringe" was totally MISSING!

In fact Muslims in the U.S frequently admit to feeling "afraid" to speak out against their own militant factions.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Brother Bob]

b.....57; Amy thanks but no thanks, church is nothing but a religous God forsaken institution. And I would advise you to come out of the whore church..

Thats enough for me from this guy.

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

I'm with you, Brother Bob! I've had enough of this whole thread!

 

[DHK]

But my question "remains" -- Cornelius at best was a believer in the God of the Bible - but not a Christian and not an in-the-flesh Jew. So was he saved?
In Christ,
Bob

Of course not. If he was already saved there would have been no need of God sending Peter to Cornelius to preach the gospel to him so that he could be saved.

 

[El_Guero]

Can we close it?

I'm with you, Brother Bob! I've had enough of this whole thread!