Are Non-Christians Saved?

[beloved57]

Paul was saved when he called upon the name of the Lord. Simply because the Lord knew about it before hand does not mean that the apostle Paul was saved before he was born. That is plain absurd. It says that God separated him, not saved him. Learn the difference. God had a plan for his life, but Paul still had to make the choice. I have plans for my children. But they have to make their own decisions. I can't force them. The difference between me and God in this area is that God knows before hand (since he is omniscient) what his children will decide and how they will turn out. I don't have that knowledge. A person is saved when, he, of his own volition, chooses to accept the sacrifice that Christ provided for him on the cross. No one forces him to do so.

Election has nothing to do with it.

Paul was saved when he called upon the name of the Lord.

thats right, he was already saved when he called upon the name of the lord !

Just like those who believe not are already condemned before they believe not !

jn 3

18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The opposite is also true, he that believeth was not condemed !

 

[canadyjd]

We say "I believe in Christ as my personal Savior" or "based on a personal testimony of experience" and throw these terms around and yet seem sometimes to have forgotten what they really signify. That experience of Christ can come to anyone.

Not without the gospel of Jesus Christ. And that Gospel is not found in other "belief systems".

peace to youraying:

 

[canadyjd]

beloved57

Rom 10:8-9 "But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching (9) that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved:"

Very clear in scripture. confess, believe ..... you will be saved. It does not say "you will realize you were already saved." It says, you will be saved.

and

Acts 16:30-31 "and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" (31) "They said, 'Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household"

believe....you will be saved. Not, you will realize you were already saved.

peace to youraying:

 

[beloved57]

You can't say "Yes and no". Let your yes be yes and your no be no.

Is faith in Jesus Christ necessary for salvation, Yes or no?

You appear to be saying No. You appear to be saying the elect are saved, prior to faith, but when we receive Holy Spirit, we become aware of the salvation that we already had. Is that what you are saying?

peace to youraying:

Yes I can say that, but obiviously you did not read the distinction I made ! Faith is not necessary to get saved. NO NO NO.....

The scripture says the elect are saved by His stripes, look at isa 53

5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Healed means saved !!

His stripes saved his people, not faith !

 

[Pastor Larry]

The Bible says that salvation comes through faith. That is the position of Calvinism, sometimes called "duty faith." Those who do not believe faith is necessary are usually called hyperCalvinists. Primitive Baptists usually don't claim to be Calvinists in my experience, but they also believe that God's elect will be saved without faith.

The Bible indicates that all the elect will be brought to faith and saved by faith.

 

[canadyjd]

The Bible says that salvation comes through faith. That is the position of Calvinism, sometimes called "duty faith." Those who do not believe faith is necessary are usually called hyperCalvinists. Primitive Baptists usually don't claim to be Calvinists in my experience, but they also believe that God's elect will be saved without faith.

The Bible indicates that all the elect will be brought to faith and saved by faith.

Exactly. Salvation is appropriated by the elect through faith. That faith is a response to the convicting work of Holy Spirit and in response to the proclamation of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

To say faith is not necessary for salvation denies the necessity of the proclamation of the gospel and the work of Holy Spirit in the Salvation of believers.

peace to youraying:

 

[amity]

Not without the gospel of Jesus Christ. And that Gospel is not found in other "belief systems".

Are you saying that God can't, or that God won't call someone without the gospel first being preached? Whichever you mean to say, we again have to wonder about Cornelius.

And frankly, I may believe I am an aardvark, but that doesn't make it so. It is hard to see what simple intellectual belief has to do with most of what the Bible is saying. I think belief in the Bible means usually something different than the way we usually use the term (like Peter Pan? no! Christianity is not never-never land!).

Pastor Larry, I just think maybe we mean something different by the term "faith" as well. Of course, I don't speak for Primitive Baptists by a long stretch! But the way I have understood it, and I think it is right, faith is what is placed in us when our hearts are circumcised in regeneration. It is not of him that willeth.

 

[canadyjd]

Yes I can say that, but obiviously you did not read the distinction I made !

You made a distinction when there was no difference.

Faith is not necessary to get saved. NO NO NO.....

Thank you for speaking clearly. You are clearly wrong, according to scripture.

peace to youraying:

 

[beloved57]

cand jay says

Rom 10:8-9 "But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching (9) that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved:"

Notice paul tells them that the word was already in their heart

What did he mean by that ? He meant that they had been already regenerated by the word of God, thats the only way it could be already in their heart. The spoken word was their waiting for the preached word.

The word for word is rhema and it is also used in 1 pet

But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.


The romans paul was preaching to, had already been spoken to by the eternal word, which is christ, and the gospel is also the word that is preached to them.

Regeneration comes before faith , and regeneration is part of salvation ! God regenerates all those who are saved by the death of christ....

 

[beloved57]

You made a distinction when there was no difference.



Thank you for speaking clearly. You are clearly wrong, according to scripture.

peace to youraying:

Oh no, I am clearly right, you are making faith a condition for salvation, but it is not ! Faith is therfore your saviour, and it wont do you no good in the day of judgment !

 

[canadyjd]

Are you saying that God can't, or that God won't call someone without the gospel first being preached? Whichever you mean to say, we again have to wonder about Cornelius.

First of all, Cornelius clearly heard the gospel prior to his salvation. Whatever else you believe, you must see that. Acts 10:34-43

Second, I Cor 1:21 says, "For since in the widsom of God, the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe."

This is very clear. All other messages in the world; all other systems of religion are without salvific value. The plan of God is to bring salvation to His people through the preaching of the gospel. Christ and Him crucified. So you see, it is not about whether God can, but won't...the preaching of the gospel of Jesus Christ is the method ordained by God to bring salvation to His people.

peace to youraying:

 

[beloved57]

Exactly. Salvation is appropriated by the elect through faith. That faith is a response to the convicting work of Holy Spirit and in response to the proclamation of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

To say faith is not necessary for salvation denies the necessity of the proclamation of the gospel and the work of Holy Spirit in the Salvation of believers.

peace to youraying:

Thats in correct ! The preaching of the gospel is needful to bring the elect the goodnews of their salvation, not to make conditions for it !

eph 1 12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Notice, it was their salvation before they believed, God gave them faith to trust that it was so.

 

[amity]

Notice paul tells them that the word was already in their heart
What did he mean by that ? He meant that they had been already regenerated by the word of God, thats the only way it could be already in their heart. The spoken word was their waiting for the preached word.

Jeremiah31:31Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

Is this the "How many topics can we wedge into a thread?" thread?

There are so many confused people on here, sometimes I wonder if they ever read the Bible.

Quoting Scripture does no good unless you understand and believe what that Scripture says.

First the RCC is Christian, then Muslims can get saved and still be Muslims, then faith is not necessary for salvation, and now, Christians can be saved and not know it!!!

Sad. Very sad... :tear:

Information without meditation brings no transformation.​

 

[The Galatian]

If anyone cares what Jesus thinks is necessary to be saved, they can find it in Matthew 25:31-46. Therein, Jesus tells us how He will chose those who will spend eternity with Him, and those He will send to the place reserved for the Devil and his angels.

Best believe it.

 

[amity]

First of all, Cornelius clearly heard the gospel prior to his salvation. Whatever else you believe, you must see that. Acts 10:34-43

How do you figure that? Peter seems to be recognizing his salvation before he has preached to him? And also makes the point that this is no proselyte.

Second, I Cor 1:21 says, "For since in the widsom of God, the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe."

It sounds to me like they already believe!

This is very clear. All other messages in the world; all other systems of religion are without salvific value. The plan of God is to bring salvation to His people through the preaching of the gospel. Christ and Him crucified. So you see, it is not about whether God can, but won't...the preaching of the gospel of Jesus Christ is the method ordained by God to bring salvation to His people.

Well, we have already all agreed to that. I know it is a long thread, but reading some of it will clarify. Except I do not agree that we are saved eternally by hearing the gospel. The gospel only brings salvation to light, i.e. lets us know about it.

 

[amity]

Is this the "How many topics can we wedge into a thread?" thread?
There are so many confused people on here, sometimes I wonder if they ever read the Bible.
Quoting Scripture does no good unless you understand and believe what that Scripture says.
First the RCC is Christian, then Muslims can get saved and still be Muslims, then faith is not necessary for salvation, and now, Christians can be saved and not know it!!!
Sad. Very sad... :tear:

Information without meditation brings no transformation.​

NOPE! The news is GLAD! Much gladder than you ever realized before!

 

[beloved57]

First of all, Cornelius clearly heard the gospel prior to his salvation. Whatever else you believe, you must see that. Acts 10:34-43

Second, I Cor 1:21 says, "For since in the widsom of God, the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe."

This is very clear. All other messages in the world; all other systems of religion are without salvific value. The plan of God is to bring salvation to His people through the preaching of the gospel. Christ and Him crucified. So you see, it is not about whether God can, but won't...the preaching of the gospel of Jesus Christ is the method ordained by God to bring salvation to His people.

peace to youraying:

That statement is not true ! God had accepted corny before he heard the gospel !

acts 10

1There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,

2A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway

He is just like Job, a man recognized to fear God ! No man who is unregenerated fears God, that contradicts scripture.

rom 3 18There is no fear of God before their eyes.

God had cleansed corny

acts 10 15And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

God only hears the prayer of the righteous and notice here about cornys prayers before he heard the gospel


30And Cornelius said, Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and, behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing,

31And said, Cornelius, thy prayer is heard, and thine alms are had in remembrance in the sight of God.

proof text

ps 34
15The eyes of the LORD are upon the righteous, and his ears are open unto their cry.

prov 15 29The LORD is far from the wicked: but he heareth the prayer of the righteous.

Corny was righteous in Gods sight before he heard the gospel

acts 10 34Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

35But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Corny was already accepted in the beloved before he heard the gospel, now peter realized this..


A person is saved before they hear the gospel..

 

[amity]

If anyone cares what Jesus thinks is necessary to be saved, they can find it in Matthew 25:31-46. Therein, Jesus tells us how He will chose those who will spend eternity with Him, and those He will send to the place reserved for the Devil and his angels.
Best believe it.

Oh, I believe it allright! Note sheep cannot become goats and vice versa, so God used a very appropriate metaphor here as He always does. "Sheephood" is not voluntary.

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

A person is saved before they hear the gospel..

"Sheephood" is not voluntary.

Rom 10:14

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?