Are Today's Christians Becoming Wimps?

Is seeking out what the word of God says wimpy?

Was Jesus a wimp?

[ September 30, 2005, 05:15 AM: Message edited by: C4K ]

 

You've chosen the perfect group to attack without needing such.

 

The weapons of our warfare are not carnel but spiritual---to the pulling down of strongholds.

Knowing how to handle a M-16 assault rifle is one thing---rightly dividing the word of truth is quiet another!!

 

Amen.

 

I guess I've been missing other threads that addressed this issue (that I haven't paid any attention to).

Having said that, I'm in agreement with the brothers here, but I also know how to handle a firearm. Most of the time, I attempt to use them on defenseless squirrels, deer, and a variety of birds, but I'm also quite capable of defending myself and my family.

 

Robert...you mean your big powerful country is being infected by little old Canada?

Just so you know...I'm no wimp. Now...I have to ask...why is it ok to fight back with guns and knives...but not to say a "mean" word back in self defence?

 

In reply to KJ,

</font>[/QUOTE]"When He was reviled, He reviled not again." Two verses before we are told that this is the example we are to follow.

If this makes Jesus a wimp, I am glad to be considered one.

 

C4K, I never called you a wimp. I was asking these people why it is ok to fight back with guns and knives but it's not ok to fight back verbally...on the BaptistBoard.

I wonder if some moderators got my message yesterday.

 

It takes greater courage to stand up for truth in a peaceful manner than it does to take up arms, and much more is accomplished. Look at Christ and the early Christians - they changed the WORLD without the use of weapons.

In Secular terms at the examples of Martin Luther King and Ghandi - they brought change through peacefully standing up for what was right, not by waging war.

Then look at the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, Nazi Germany, Joan of Arc - and the damage done by their "righteous wars."

Christ? Paul? Peter? Stephen? James? John? Whimps?

 

I have looked quite long and hard in the Bible for a command to defend oneself and I cannot find it. I can find where we should defend others. I can find where we should obey authorities and that may well mean going to war with/for one's country. But I can find no instnace where it is recommended, let alone commanded, to defend oneself personally.

This is the basic problem I have with the martial arts. I have a sister who is deeply into the Eastern stuff (I come from a non-Christian family) and teaches Aikido, and has found 'inner peace' -- please don't scratch her surface, though!

What I have seen in her and many like her is a spirit of defensiveness that is always prepared to strike out in that vein, verbally or physically. The martial arts seems to feed into that attitude of personal defensiveness. To me that is exactly opposite of what we are commanded to do and be biblically.

Even spiritually, you will find in Ephesians 6 that we are only asked by Paul (or God, through him) to STAND. Not even to move forward. Just to stand. Our weapons are for that purpose. The battle is taking place in the spiritual realms. I may be wrong, but it seems to me that the more one concentrates on the physical, the less prepared one often is in the spiritual realm to withstand the onslaughts we get.

I'm not putting down physical wellbeing or maintenance. I have a whole new set of callouses on my hands from shoveling about 50 tons of topsoil this week, trying to get the yard ready for the rains. We have a rescue mare coming in this morning who will need a lot of attention. In short, by maintaining an active lifestyle, I can stay plenty fit without martial arts, guns, knives, etc. We have a couple of good barking dogs to let us know if there are intruders and an active prayer life for defense.

Have some good chef's knives for food preparation, but not a gun on the place.

What is so "Christian" about fighting with people?

I'm not a peace-nik, and I certainly don't opt for peace at any cost in any situation. But given the option, I'll choose peace over a fight anytime. Paul told us to live in peace with all men as much as possible.

There are things to stand up for and things to defend. Myself is not one of them for me.

 

You make great points Helen. It is wrong for us to defend ourselves with weapons. I just realized that since the tongue is the most damaging weapon, I should not fight back verbally. But since this is the area God wants to work on me about I know that the devil will continually attack me. I may slip up...but I am trying.

 

Wait a minute...are you all saying that if someone was attempting to do you bodily harm, you would make no move to defend yourself - at all? You wouldn't protect yourself even?

As noble as that sounds, I don't buy it...at least from most people. I just spent 21 years of my life defending people and myself by the way with weapons.

It's wrong to defend ourselves with weapons? Are you sure?

(I'll admit I might be getting this wrong...are we talking about verbal assault due to the message of the gospel that we faithfully carry, or are we talking about a terrorist breaking into our home at night?)

 

No accusation there - I am glad to be a wimp if Jesus' response made Him one.

 

We keep coming back to one instance, where we don't know how He used a whip while ignoring Peter's words above.

 

I think a certain moderator believes he carries Jesus' whip. and I'm not talking about you C4K.

 

I don't want to fight Bob. I will fight with people who start fights with me. Especially when the people responsible for stopping it don't stop it.

And...how can you imply that I DO want to fight...look at my post history the last few days...I have apologized when I've got over heated...I've discussed things with someone who I thought I was cool with (I was wrong though),I've tried to have decent discussions and been attacked without provocation...I've tried to use a little humour. What do you WANT? Perfection??? When you have it, let me know how you got it and I'll follow your example.

Not a brawler IS a character trait to be emulated. But like Jesus, not tolerating injustice is a character trait to be emulated as well...and one I believe He has given me. The proof that He has is all over this board...

 

-----"I have looked quite long and hard in the Bible for a command to defend oneself and I cannot find it. I can find where we should defend others."-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That is because it is not a command, but a right God built into us when he designed us with a "fight or flight" response.

As someone who carries a concealed weapon, and reserves my right as a christian to defend myslef and my family against bodily harm and death, and as one who actually had to kill in sef-defense once, I just wanted to make an observation I think might be helpful.

It seems to me that when we advocates of gun ownership and selfdefense assert that it is ok with God if we use a gun in a dire instance of self defense, the other side is hearing a different message than what is being given.

No one has called for rebellion. No one has advocated turning you home into a fort and waiting for the feds to come and get you. No one is organizing an armed resistance movement. We are not saying that the guns come out at the first instance of persecution.

We are simply saying that we retain the right to use a gun in the most dire and exogent of circumstances. I find it hard to belive that if this country became tyranical, and if I shot a persecutor who was about to torture and kill my child, that God would have a problem with that.

I am surprised that some of the more pacifistic folks on here wont grant us this one small concession, or at least not be so dogmatic when it comes to the type of extreme circumstances we are envisioning here (such as Sudan). Yes we are to turn the other cheek. But I imagine before we got to a state or armed conflict, we would have turned our cheek a thousand times. I think every one on my side is only talking about last resorts here.

[ September 30, 2005, 12:30 PM: Message edited by: Bunyon ]