Are We "Baptiscostalists" Seen As Actually being part of The Baptist Family?

[JesusFan]

Just curious, basing my question upon various viewpoints concerning the validity of the "pentacostal" Movement in Christiandom...

Are they any others who look at the Bible as I do here?

Believe in 4 points of the TULIP/pre trib/pre Mill
Bible is Inspired/Inerrant in ALL it teaches and says.....

But...

Also believe that the Holy Spirit still can elect to grant Spiritual gifts, as he wills it...

NO Faith healer , but God can still heal today , but again as HE wills...
Can do sign gifts, but ONLY to edify/encourage/uplift Body, NEVER as a replacement for the Bible as THE guide to all faith and practice..

Are ther any other Baptists who believe this way, is this considered a valid group within the baptist Body or not?

 

[Ed B]

But...

Also believe that the Holy Spirit still can elect to grant Spiritual gifts, as he wills it...

NO Faith healer , but God can still heal today , but again as HE wills...

In my area, there is a good number of "rank and file" Baptist who believe this way to some degree. When I was growing up in Baptists Churches no one had the audacity to ask God to out-right heal someone. We prayed for God's will to be done or for God to guide the surgeon's hand, but never for a miraculous healing. The majority of the Baptists I know today encourage and participate in prayer for the sick to be directly healed by God. Yes, they will pray for God's will and to assist doctors or surgeons, but that is often part of a direct request for healing.

Can do sign gifts, but ONLY to edify/encourage/uplift Body, NEVER as a replacement for the Bible as THE guide to all faith and practice..

Are ther any other Baptists who believe this way, is this considered a valid group within the baptist Body or not?

The percentages of Baptist laity who believe in sign gifts, speaking in tongues in particular, are significantly lower than those who believe God will heal and answer prayer in miraculous ways, but there are some. One difference is that even among the "tongue talking Baptists" you are unlikely to find any who believe that speaking in tongues is the definitive evidence of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit as you see in Pentecostal Churches. In my opinion, many old Charismatics from the 80s and 90s are now just part of the general Baptist population.

 

[JesusFan]

Think key way to view this is that we who hold to hold to the gifts still valid today DO NOT HOLD:
Tongues are NOT a sign of spiritual maturity, evidence of being 'filled with Spirit" required to be saved etc... Just a gift from Lord, no more/less

God is healer, NOT faith healers, and he can chose to use medicine, surgery, divine healing, many times allows death to bring final healing...

Bible ONLY infallible guide both faith and practice

Most importantly...

Allow for other Christians to NOT AGREE in this area, and still we are still preaching and teaching same risen Christ, and Gospel!

 

[Tom Butler]

I don't personally know any conservative Baptist who practices tongues in any fashion, including private prayer language. And I would be uncomfortable in a church where such a practice is permitted.

That said, I have no qualms about praying for God to heal, either miraculously or through a physician. But I don't believe anyone has the spiritual gift of healing in this day and time. Nor do I think anyone has a prophetic gift.

Part of the problem is that those groups who claim to have such gifts are so riddled with error, even heresy. I can't imagine they're right on these things.

 

[Ed B]

Think key way to view this is that we who hold to hold to the gifts still valid today DO NOT HOLD:
Tongues are NOT a sign of spiritual maturity, evidence of being 'filled with Spirit" required to be saved etc... Just a gift from Lord, no more/less

God is healer, NOT faith healers, and he can chose to use medicine, surgery, divine healing, many times allows death to bring final healing...

Bible ONLY infallible guide both faith and practice

Most importantly...

Allow for other Christians to NOT AGREE in this area, and still we are still preaching and teaching same risen Christ, and Gospel!

JF

Are you describing a particular local Church or network of Churches that hold the beliefs you list above or the bapticostals that can be found in most Baptist Churches of any significant size?

"...Tongues are NOT a sign of spiritual maturity, evidence of being 'filled with Spirit" required to be saved etc... Just a gift from Lord, no more/less"

By clarifying it this way I suspect you would not be alone in your beliefs if you were a member of my Sunday School class. You would be in the minority, but it would be seen as a tertiary issue and not a test of fellowship as long as you didn't deliver messages in tongues during class or corporate worship. In other words, my particular Baptist Church would not be peering into your prayer closet to confirm that your private audible prayers are in English. But the official teachings of my Church are cessationistic.

 

[JesusFan]

I don't personally know any conservative Baptist who practices tongues in any fashion, including private prayer language. And I would be uncomfortable in a church where such a practice is permitted.

Since becoming a Baptist, have run into some in our circles who do speak in tongues, but again, is NOT a sign of maturity, evidence of being filled with Spirit etc, JUST a gift given by the Holy Spiriit as he wills it...

That said, I have no qualms about praying for God to heal, either miraculously or through a physician. But I don't believe anyone has the spiritual gift of healing in this day and time. Nor do I think anyone has a prophetic gift.

Agree that God alone is the healer, and there are NO faith healers running around today...
Prophetic gift all depends if you hold it to be the office of a Prophet, I do not...
IF you hold to be a way God can give someone special understanding to a situation, or can use someone to expound forth a message to a special need...

Part of the problem is that those groups who claim to have such gifts are so riddled with error, even heresy. I can't imagine they're right on these things.

Think that there is a kernal of truth, but mixed with lots of error...
Need to have discernment, and remember to always stay focused on the REAL Gospel, real power of Holy Spirit to live for Christ, and keep Bible as being THE final/ultimate source for truth and practice!

 

[JesusFan]

Think being balanced is the key here for both sides of this issue...

I tend to think even most Cessanests would agree with me that the Lord can do healing today, while I would with you that divine healings are NOT the norm, but that God can chose medicine, surgeries, direct divine healing even death to bring healing about...

And I think most of us would agree that if there be tongues, just another gift, and is to be used in a Biblical fashion...

Think most of us would agree that God can choose to use "sign gifts" if he chose to for a particular reason, but that the Norm is the Bible and its teachings...

Think problems comes from us who tend to see Bible saying god has TOTALLY ceased operating as he did in Acts, and those of us who say that is the NORM for Him to function as in book of Acts...

Think many of us are closer on this than we fully realise?

 

[Aaron]

Just curious, basing my question upon various viewpoints concerning the validity of the "pentacostal" Movement in Christiandom...

Are they any others who look at the Bible as I do here?

Believe in 4 points of the TULIP/pre trib/pre Mill
Bible is Inspired/Inerrant in ALL it teaches and says.....

But...

Also believe that the Holy Spirit still can elect to grant Spiritual gifts, as he wills it...

NO Faith healer , but God can still heal today , but again as HE wills...
Can do sign gifts, but ONLY to edify/encourage/uplift Body, NEVER as a replacement for the Bible as THE guide to all faith and practice..

Are ther any other Baptists who believe this way, is this considered a valid group within the baptist Body or not?

You're redefining "bapticostal," because to believe in the operation of ecstatic sign gifts is to believe in faith-healing etc.

And each Pentecostal will say, "As HE wills . . ."

But to answer your question. In my eyes, no. A Baptist church with ecstatic worship practices, whether in the operation of the gifts or in the adoption of their music is a Baptist church in transition to wholesale charismania.

 

[JesusFan]

I have taken studies at an Assemblies of God institute for teaching and preaching the Bible, all of that from the"classical Pentacostal" viewpoint, so know when I speak on what is 'Blibical" is far from what most who adhere to their understanding would hold to!

just trying to see if there is a common ground/framework one can hold to the idea that sometimes God could still choose to function as in Acts, yet still be keeping the vast majority of time he chooses to operate throught the teaching and study and preaching of Bible.period.

Just saying don't see where if one holds that God can at times still function as in Acts means that one is saying "extra revelation/faith healers etc?"

Just coming from viewpoint of one who had his baptist friends tell me that If I could just "lose all things Charesmatic" would make a great Baptist, while pentacostal friends would tell me if i could just allow for God to do as he so wills, not close Him out, would make a great Pentacostlist!

 

[Ed B]

I have taken studies at an Assemblies of God institute for teaching and preaching the Bible, all of that from the"classical Pentacostal" viewpoint, so know when I speak on what is 'Blibical" is far from what most who adhere to their understanding would hold to!

just trying to see if there is a common ground/framework one can hold to the idea that sometimes God could still choose to function as in Acts, yet still be keeping the vast majority of time he chooses to operate throught the teaching and study and preaching of Bible.period.

Just saying don't see where if one holds that God can at times still function as in Acts means that one is saying "extra revelation/faith healers etc?"

Just coming from viewpoint of one who had his baptist friends tell me that If I could just "lose all things Charesmatic" would make a great Baptist, while pentacostal friends would tell me if i could just allow for God to do as he so wills, not close Him out, would make a great Pentacostlist!

I am not one to say God cannot use sign gifts if He so chooses, even today. many years ago I attended the Church of God - Cleveland, which differs from Assembly of God primarily with regard to church polity. I know where you are coming from and we both know the errors and excesses as well as the good from that stream of Christian tradition.