Are we spirit beings in Heaven before conception?

[Mercury]

Originally posted by Marcia:
I think babies are born with a spirit/soul; God does not breath the breath of life into each baby born.

I think God breathes life into all his creations and also takes life away. Biology simply describes some of how he does so. The following verses refer to all God's creatures, not just humans:

"When you hide your face, they are dismayed; when you take away their breath, they die and return to their dust. When you send forth your Spirit, they are created, and you renew the face of the ground." (Psalm 104:29-30, ESV)

After all, Gen. says that God rested on the 7th day. Creation was over as far as God's direct hand in creating.

I think creation was in some sense completed in the beginning, but God remains active in creation since then. Creation is an ongoing process, as Psalm 104 and other passages show. Also, Jesus referred to the Father's continuing work during his seventh-day Sabbath as justification for his own working on the Sabbath:

"And this was why the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because he was doing these things on the Sabbath. But Jesus answered them, 'My Father is working until now, and I am working.' " (John 5:16-17)

 

[Marcia]

Yes, God is still working (active in creation) and we are told that Jesus holds the world together, but God is not creating from scratch. When a flower comes out of a seed it was not created from nothing.

So when a baby is conceived, how is God creating him or her? I agree the process of conception, gestation and birth were all put in place by God but then they continue in the way God set them up to continue.

The Ps. 104 passage about God taking away the breath of the animals and sending forth is spirit to create them is poetic. I don't think using poetry as theology without other supporting passages is a good idea or else we would think God has arms or wings. But we've been through this before, Mercury, and since I'm leaving town, you will undoubtedly get the last word.

 

[Marcia]

Originally posted by James_Newman:
Jeremiah 1:5
5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Would this not indicate that God does indeed still create us? We are not special creation in the sense that there were no people before us, but still He forms us individualy.

You're in good company with the Roman Catholics because this is what they believe - that each person's spirit is created anew by God and is not present automatically from conception (as I understand it).

 

[James_Newman]

Even a blind pig finds an acorn some times.

 

[El_Guero]

mmm ...

Mormons believe that Jesus was created AFTER 'His' older brother satan ...

I believe the book that best describes Mormon heresy(ies) would be Mormon Doctrine

 

[Mercury]

Originally posted by Marcia:
But we've been through this before, Mercury, and since I'm leaving town, you will undoubtedly get the last word.

I'm sure the thread will have a life of its own while you're gone.

I think there's a difference between accepting that a poetic description isn't literal and writing off the passage entirely. For instance, Deuteronomy 7:19 speaks of God's mighty and outstretched arm that brought the Israelites out of Egypt. I think that imagery is poetic, but the meaning is true. I wouldn't say that God wasn't involved in bringing Israel out of Egypt just because the passage used figurative imagery to describe it. Even if we had no literal account of the exodus that confirmed how God worked in it, that Deuteronomy passage would still be true testimony to God's involvement.

And so, I take the same approach with Genesis 2 and Psalm 104 that speak of God's spirit/breath giving life to creatures, including humans. These description may use poetic imagery, but the point of the imagery is still true. It is God that gives life to his creatures and takes life away. The same is true with the passage James_Newman posted in Jeremiah, or also Psalm 139 which says much the same thing. God formed every one of us, even if poetic descriptions are given for how God does this.

Where I might differ with James is that I don't think these descriptions rule out natural processes. To answer the opening post, no, I don't think we were spirit beings in Heaven before conception.

[ October 14, 2005, 07:52 PM: Message edited by: Mercury ]

 

[DeeJay]

El Guero

Mormons believe that Jesus was created AFTER 'His' older brother satan ...

Correction, Mormons believe Jesus is the older brother and satan was second. Not that this is any better. When a Mormon reads the bible, most do not, they take things like first born, Father, children of God, as being literal procreated family of God and his wife.