Are you a victem of easy belevism?

I think the problem is confusing salvation with conversion/sanctification. I believe I was saved by believing alone. I wasn't living right, and it took some time before I was brought to the realization that God would require obedience from me as a saved child of God. But I don't doubt that I was saved. Christians need to be aware that they are still going to be held accountable for their works at the judgment seat of Christ, and that is something that 'easy believism' often neglects, namely discipleship. We need to teach the pure simple gospel of Christ, believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved. Then we need to try to get these people in to churches where they can be discipled and grow in Christ. But we cannot pervert the grace of God. Believers can and do live sinfull worldly lives. They will still be saved, but they will be judged for their sins.

 

I would certainly agree that a false gospel would result in false converts. But belief on the Lord Jesus for salvation is not a false gospel. How would you tell the difference between someone who was saved but living like the devil, and someone who was never saved? Jesus said that whosoever believed would be raised up on the last day. If a believer can 'believe in vain' it must be in relation to something other than the common salvation of being raised up on the last day. I think the believer still has promises to obtain through obedience, and can come short of those promises. Mainly the promise of reigning with Jesus in the kingdom, which we must suffer for.

 

I dont think you can believe in vain. Either you believe or you do not.

I do think that there are people who say they believe, go to church, play the part. But in their heart they do not believe. They would be false converts, or more accurately, not converts at all.

I still find your comparison to pedophiles sickening.

 

Agreed.

To compare a well-meaning "soul-winner" to a child-molester is insulting, vulgar, and ridiculous.

 

umm...anything but Pedophile?

 

What I don't understand is why would someone fake the belief in Jesus Christ as Savior. There's no Scriptural support of this idea, but despite it is RAMPANT among Christendom.

People say our churches are flooded with false believers.

I can't for the life of me think why someone would want to fake belief in Jesus' death and shed blood. How do you fake that? And how would you know the difference?

Again salvation is something that is inward not outward. We have got to get away from this idea of false believers. It serves ZERO purpose. If someone says they believe in the substitutionary death and shed blood of Jesus Christ on behalf of themselves a sinner, then treat that person as a saved individual, because that's what the Bible says they are.

If they are living in sin as a believer then go through the steps that Scriptures says to use to bring about repentance and if none is found then disfellowship them until they repent, but don't go around saying they were never saved in the first place.

I don't know how many times people have questioned their salvation because they didn't think they were being "good" enough. We have to quit teaching people that works are associated in ANY form with eternal salvation, because that is just not what Scripture teaches.

Right living has to do with the point AFTER eternal salvation is done and over with and ONLY then. A Christian can remain in sin or they can die to self and allow the Holy Spirit to live out the manifested life of Christ within them. It's a choice that has to be made moment by moment. And there are consequences for both choices.

 

Because of Mom and Grandma, and Grandpa is a preacher and is so proud of what a good Christian so and so is. And because spouse wants a good Christian home. And all my friends and coworkers are ..........

You get the idea if you live in Texas or (insert state of high population of Baptists) then it is socaly normal to be a Baptist. Being an unbeliever or any other religion makes you an outsider, not one of the bunch.

I see it all the time here. When I was a Mormon I was told that if I prayed I would know that the LDS church was true. I prayed and prayed (nothing, no burning of the boosim) but when asked about it. YEA I feelt it, yea god told me it is true. Baptise me now cause I feel it ( I wanted to be like my peers and friends and family)

LOTS of reason to fake it.

 

Words have meaning and what you are describing while not right is not pedophilea. You are useing the word for shock value alone. In the process you are hurting victems of pedophiles and down playing what a pedophile is.


Let me ask you this. Lets say I am guilty of not decipeling somebody in the past. Would you say that what I did is equal to being a childmolester?
Would you call me as bad as a childmolester, if we were speaking in person?

Have you EVER not witnessed to somebody when you should have? Of course you have not. If not decipeling is as bad as childmolesting, then how bad is it that you did not even share the gosple?

What dispicable act are you compairable to?

 

I am not sure people are "faking" it on purpose, but maybe they go forward in church one Sunday because of an emotional reaction, because others expect it, because of family pressure, etc. not realizing what is happening. I think this can happen to young people.

I was baptized at age 11 and I was definitely not a believer. My baptism was arranged by my mother (who I think was a nominal believer herself) since she wanted me baptized at that point and in that church. I don't recall if I walked the aisle beforehand and I don't recall the pastor asking me anything. He probably did, but if so, I would have given the expected answers - I knew what they were. I knew I was supposed to believe in Jesus and be baptized to be good. But Jesus and the Bible at that point were very unreal to me. This was in a So. Baptist church.

Later in my teens, at another So. Baptist church, I was also a "fake believer." I went to church, to youth group, etc. and would have told people I was a Christian (because I had been baptized, after all). I knew what I was supposed to say -- I was desperately trying to be good enough for God.

Naturally, this house of cards fell apart. In my case, it was around age 16 when I started questioning the Bible and the truth of Chrisitianity, and decided to explore other beliefs. By age 17, I had made a conscious, deliberate decision to reject Christianity, and in college I continued on this path, turning into a full-blown New Ager and astrologer until God intervened and saved me in late 1990.

 

Are there people that walk and isle and don't completely understand what's going on? Sure there are. I myself am one of those. I walked the isle at a young age and thought I was saved.

That's not being a victim of easy believism, that's being a victim of bad pastor/teachers, bad Sunday School teachers, mis-informed, mis-intentioned parents.

But what has happened is that part of Christendom has gone to an extreme to fix the problem with a problem that is just as wrong. Instead of re-educating pastors, SS teachers, parents, grand-parents, evangelists or whatever we have started teaching that eternal salvation is something that is difficult and hard to obtain.

What has happened is that a part of Christendom has tied discipleship with eternal salvation in order for people to somehow "prove" they are Christians. If you don't produce fruit then you must not be a Christian.

That's not what the Bible says at all. It is EXTREMELY easy to believe. We just need to make sure that people understand what they are believing first instead of notching a slot on our belt on in our Bible and racking up another "saved" person for the kingdom.

You know when I was actually "saved" basically all the discipling that I got was go home and read the Gospel of John and come back to church.

Eternal salvation is easy (not cheap), but discipleship has a HUGE price to pay and not all Christians are willing to pay that price, but it has nothing to do with whether or not they are saved.

 

But conversion and salvation are apples and oranges. Only saved folks can be converted and only unsaved folks can be saved.

 

I think that could be part of the answer, but Baptists alone can't even come to a conclusion on what it means for a person to be saved. So I think more important than testimonies is preaching, teaching and sharing with others what salvation is.

Get an agreement on what it means to be eternally saved and how one is eternally saved and then get testimonies about how people have varied from that.