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Are You Sure?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Ray Berrian, May 18, 2003.

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  1. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian New Member

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    The Apostle Peter came to the assurance that only through Jesus came eternal life. In John 6:68-69 Peter said that not only did he believe in our Lord but was assured that He was the true Christ Who was the living God.

    I see in these verses the affirmation of a cognitive will and trust in Christ Jesus. One might guess that Peter not only believed and trusted in Jesus at the onset but reflected on his relationship to God different times. There were certain things in Jesus life and Personality that brought about His trust and total reliance on the Christ.

    Verse 69 appears to be something beyond an arbitrary act of God is selecting the apostolic band as a vehicle through who He could work His ministry and Divine will. God chose twelve to follow and love Him, but one remained in sin and rebellion.

    If people are not personally convinced that Jesus is the Savior of the world, they will take the walk that Judas traversed, a journey that will end at the Great White Throne Judgment. [Revelation 20:11].
    Yes, Peter speaking for the twelve said, 'And we believe and are sure that Thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.'
     
    #1 Ray Berrian, May 18, 2003
  2. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. Good post, Ray. [​IMG]
     
    #2 KenH, May 18, 2003
  3. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    First, let me say I agree with Ken, this is an excellent post.

    Next, what is missing from the above analogy that is IMHO, Biblically sound? and what is present?

    That which is absent is a love of God, what is present then is a continuation in sin and rebellion. While this is yet a beautiful post, it does not answer the question that separates us, I am inclined to ask, can man love God by his own will, when by that will he is declared 'at enmity with God'? What is it that puts in the enemy of God this love?

    We love him because he first loved us.

    Jer 31:3 The LORD hath appeared of old, unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore, with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

    This definitely opposes the thought that God performs violence against the depraved will of man in 'electing' him to salvation. All is performed through 'an everlasting love' and 'with lovingkindness'.

    Great Post!!! I enjoyed reading it very much. [​IMG]
    God Bless.
    Bro. Dallas Eaton [​IMG]
     
    #3 Frogman, May 18, 2003
  4. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian New Member

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    In thinking about John 6:69 the Greek sheds some light on the perfect meaning of this verse. 'And we believe and are sure that Thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.'

    "We have believed, {hermeis pepisteukamen} is in the perfect active indicative of (pisteuo) which means [we have come to believe and still believe] in Christ. In the last chapter of John's first epistle he in his later life still affirms that Jesus is the gift of eternal life to all who believe. 'These things have I written unto you who believe on the Name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.' Most scholars believe John wrote these words from from God between A.D. 85 and 100.
     
    #4 Ray Berrian, May 20, 2003
  5. Yelsew

    Yelsew Guest

    First, let me say I agree with Ken, this is an excellent post.

    Next, what is missing from the above analogy that is IMHO, Biblically sound? and what is present?

    That which is absent is a love of God, what is present then is a continuation in sin and rebellion. While this is yet a beautiful post, it does not answer the question that separates us, I am inclined to ask, can man love God by his own will, when by that will he is declared 'at enmity with God'? What is it that puts in the enemy of God this love?

    We love him because he first loved us.

    Jer 31:3 The LORD hath appeared of old, unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore, with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

    This definitely opposes the thought that God performs violence against the depraved will of man in 'electing' him to salvation. All is performed through 'an everlasting love' and 'with lovingkindness'.

    Great Post!!! I enjoyed reading it very much. [​IMG]
    God Bless.
    Bro. Dallas Eaton [​IMG]     </font>[/QUOTE]You deduced that from those two verses?
    Are you not reading something into those scriptures?
     
    #5 Yelsew, May 20, 2003
  6. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    Yes, my dear Watson. :D

    His question was are your sure.

    My answer still is 'yes.'

    God Bless.
    Bro. Dallas Eaton [​IMG]

    Come on, give me a break, I said I enjoyed reading the post.

    If you believe that Christ was in the business of using whatever means necessary, then tell me why he saved only one theif on the cross, was he in too much excruciating pain to consider the other? Of course, the second did not ask, but why did he not ask, he was in the same presence of the King as the first, in the same presence of the eternal Son of God, even in the act of performing the crowning work of His reconciliation between man and God, why did he not turn to the other and attempt to provide an altar call? Was this not the moment that he most desperately needed the Gospel message, was this not the time that he most assuredly needed to be plucked from the flames of Hell, did The Christ of God not have the authority to open the altar of prayer, to lead him in and through a 'sinners' prayer? Why did He not do these things? Because he came to seek and to save that which was lost. That of the elect of God, that 1 of the 100 of the flock that has gone astray, that which the second thief on the cross was not.

    God Bless.
    Bro. Dallas Eaton
     
    #6 Frogman, May 20, 2003
  7. Yelsew

    Yelsew Guest

    What was the faith condition of the thieves? They both saw Jesus, knowing that He was innocent of any crime. One responded to Jesus with confession and contriteness. The other was too busy with his own suffering to see that his Savior was on the Cross next to him.
     
    #7 Yelsew, May 20, 2003
  8. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    What was the faith condition of the thieves? They both saw Jesus, knowing that He was innocent of any crime. One responded to Jesus with confession and contriteness. The other was too busy with his own suffering to see that his Savior was on the Cross next to him. </font>[/QUOTE]Exactly why man cannot come to God through Christ by his own will. [​IMG]

    Bro. Dallas Eaton
     
    #8 Frogman, May 20, 2003
  9. Yelsew

    Yelsew Guest

    1 out of 2 did come to Jesus of his own free will.
     
    #9 Yelsew, May 20, 2003
  10. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    Maybe the second paid more attention to the sermon Christ preached in 'paradise' and did believe...NaW......You know I don't believe that. But I also don't see free will in the first thief, other portions of scripture record that he also reviled the Saviour.

    Hummmm....revealing......

    God Bless.
    Bro. Dallas Eaton [​IMG]
     
    #10 Frogman, May 20, 2003
  11. Yelsew

    Yelsew Guest

    Ah, but in the end he asked Jesus to forgive and he was in paradise with Jesus! Sweet Victory!
     
    #11 Yelsew, May 20, 2003
  12. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    So the victory is not in Jesus, but in the 'asking' of man?
     
    #12 Frogman, May 20, 2003
  13. Yelsew

    Yelsew Guest

    God made it possible for man to ask and receive. In fact His scriptures tell us to ask and we will receive.

    God did all the work required for Salvation of man, but man must still come to faith in order for God's
    salvation to be effective for him. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. (Not God forcing faith into the man)

    Is faith a Gift of God? Sure but not something that is transferrable from God to man. You see, God has no need to have faith which is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen. God knows all and sees all. Therefore He has no faith to give!

    However, God is faithful meaning that he is reliable, trustworthy, a sure thing, able to be believed, and one who merits our faith in Him.

    So how is faith a gift of God? Simply this, God gave us every reason to believe in Him, to Trust him, To rely on him, and yet man chose of his own volition to "do it by seff" as my son used to say when a toddler. So, God gave us His Only son to bring our attention back to God. Jesus taught us how to live our lives in obedience to the will of the Father and then became the sacrifice for our sins, so that our sins would not be held against us anymore. Still we want to "earn our own way" by "doing good works" but God told us through his Son and the chosen first followers that salvation is not of works, and that we cannot do good enough to earn salvation. Jesus told us that if we believe in Him we shall be saved, and that those who do not believe are already condemned.

    None of this could have taken place if God had not shed his Grace on us. The Grace where by God restrains his Justice and wrath against our sins, the penalty for which is death, thus allowing us the time we need to come to have faith in His only Begotten Son Jesus so that we might have life.


    God gifted us with his Grace, He gave us his son who manifests grace to us, by paying the debt for our sins in full, and in whom we can have faith which brings us life eternal. What a grand and glorious gift of God!

    The rest is up to us! What will you do with Jesus?
     
    #13 Yelsew, May 20, 2003
  14. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian New Member

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    The one criminal was interested in saving his body and life, [Luke 23:39] while the second one must have had some understanding of Who Christ was and is, [Luke 23:40c; 23:41c]

    knowing that it was now or never if he wanted to save his soul through the Mediator, our Lord Jesus. The Scriptures are silent as to how he knew of the saving efficacy of our Lord. Maybe the one who ended up in Paradise had heard the saving message through one of the apostles.

    John 12:32 tells us that only 'IF I lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto Me.' Without doubt no one witnessed to the one thief about the fact the Christ was making up His Kingdom in the hearts of sinners.

    In verse 42 the one outlaw used his will to ask something of Jesus. The other one, even after hearing the saved transgressor's request still continued in his unresponsivness to Christ. He could have asked Jesus what this Paradise was all about, but he wanted to save 'his neck' more than his soul. His heart remained in rebellion and he hardened his heart even in his sinful, death.

    {I will be in Williamstown, N.C. and the "Outer Banks" for a weeks vacation. Keep up the good posts. My last visit in N.C. I saw for the first time, "The Primitive Baptist Church." The Lord bless you, each one.}
     
    #14 Ray Berrian, May 20, 2003
  15. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    just before the quote in Matt. 7.7 he said:

     
    #15 Frogman, May 20, 2003
  16. Yelsew

    Yelsew Guest

    Dallas,
    What was that last part of your post meant to do?
     
    #16 Yelsew, May 20, 2003
  17. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    Just what it says. There is a difference in saying men who seek find, and 'giving' that which is holy to those who are not 'seeking'. the latter have not the drawing of God and will only tear and rend the church.

    Bro. Dallas
     
    #17 Frogman, May 21, 2003
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