Arkansas Couple Welcomes 17th Child

[Scarlett O.]

I definitely ain't mad. :laugh: :thumbs:

I understood you to be referring to capability, but I see you were talking about capacity (volume).

:godisgood:

 

[Sopranette]

Why is wanting to keep your children seperated from the world considered to be abusive? They certainly are not keeping these children hidden; THAT would be abusive. These are dangerous times for kids.
Knowing that she had a miscarriage does explain a lot to me about their reasonings behind having so many children. Many women who experience a miscarriage blame themselves, thinking it is something they did that caused the fetus to die (when the most common reason for a miscarriage is that the fetus had something genetically seriously wrong with it.) It's more than just not thinking about using other methods of birth control; she believes it was the use of birth control in the first place that caused her to have the miscarriage.
Like Scarlett, I was also skeptical about their choices, until I watched the program. The oldest "child" is nineteen. And most of the older children are very capable of helping out. In fact, all but the very youngest have some responsibilities. How many families these days give their children any responsibilities? They also have no debt. Maybe they are making some money from their fame, but they never seem to be pushing their children into the spotlight to make money to me. I haven't seen anything exploitive yet. Also, the father built a much larger house himself recently, with the help of his sons.
It was quite refeshing to see parents who are totally prepared and responsible for their children. I see too many families were that is not the case. I see single women all the time, who have no money, no husbands, but still are having children. Then the children are in day care (paid for by the state), while their mothers work.
More power to this couple! I know I couldn't hack it, and we only have three!

Sopranette

 

[Joe]

Absolutely and totally your opinions.

So, am I a child abuser because the older of my six children helped educate and take care of the younger ones? My daughter changed her little brothers nappies!! My older son excelled in math in homechool and helped the younger ones. Sometimes my wife and I actually went out and left the older children in charge of the younger!! At times we went out to eat with other adults and we had our children sit at another table where the older kids helped the young ones order!!! All our kids learned to cook and helped prepare meals!!!! My a home children still have to fix their own lunches sometimes and even have to hoover the floor!!!!

How have my older children survived this abuse to become solid members of society. Will my poor abused younger children make it to childhood.

At what point in your obviously expert opinion does a family become abusive sheerly by the number of children they have?

You are comparing 6 kids to 17 kids, though a few are older. That I why I chose to use the 14 kids. There is nothing wrong with kids helping to rear other kids, it's wrong when the parents choose to relinquish their responsibilities. Here is my quote, I guess you missed it.
"Two adults (and remember, there is not always two adults present) to home school 14 plus kids is not an appropriate ratio"
There are also problems concerning our laws and children. We are to obey the laws. They are not to be broken, maybe you missed that part too. Better re-read my post, it's all of these problems combined, I wonder if you comment of "stirring the pot" is what you want to believe. If so, then this conversation is fruitless. We must take into consideration others viewpoints. I must get back to work now, just dropped back in for a bit

 

[Bro. Curtis]

What laws are they breaking ?

 

[Dale McNamee]

Re:Arkansas Family Welcomes 17Th. Child

Hi All!

My wife and I are friends with the Amish & Mennonites,some of whom have fairly large families and the older kids help out with the younger ones and with household chores and are content in doing so.

In the one-room schools with all ages in the same room, some of the older students work with the younger ones,once their lessons are over. Nothing unusual there.

My pastor has 11 children,10 boys & 1 girl. About half of the boys are grown and married with families of their own. Our previous pastor had 13,including 2 sets of twins. I've watched how the children interacted with each other and find the same things that I see in my Amish & Mennonite friend's families. (We're Reformed Episcopal).

I visited the Duggar Family's Website and looked at the photos. Isn't the appearance of the kids what is pushed by some Baptists: modest dresses,conservative outfits on the boys,long hair on the girls,short hair on the boys,etc. ? When I visit the modest clothing websites,I see women & girls dressed the same as the Duggar girls. So,what's the issue with how they are dressed ?

The one thing that I am concerned with is their involvement with Bill Gothard,enough said...

And another thing that I'm concerned with is the uncharitable spirit that peremeates some of the posts in this thread,how does that reflect Christ to others ?

In Christ,

Dale

 

[Joe]

What laws are they breaking ?

It has something to do with the bathroom situation according to my father inlaw. Kids who "hold it in" and are not able to relieve themselves fall under this catagory, as this could cause permanant damage. It could also be humiliating. This happens in normal households once in a while, but the Duggar's stated when they were living in that 2200 sq ft house that there was almost almost always a line at one of the two bathrooms. 17 people to two bathrooms
From what I understand, it is the social worker and others in the system who interprets these laws. There is one law in California, (I used to have it memorized when we were foster parents) this would fall under.

Anyways, I am tiring of this thread and have posted enough here.



I should have spent more time in writing my posts, my post to poor Roger is hard for me to read

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Joe, I grew up in a family of nine, and only one bathroom. I never suffered anything, 'cept maybe I had to wince a little until my siblings were done. No lasting health concerns, at all. We were clean, and had regular bathroom habits. One bathroom.

And I would like specifics, since you are accusing them of being criminals.

 

[Joe]

Joe, I grew up in a family of nine, and only one bathroom. I never suffered anything, 'cept maybe I had to wince a little until my siblings were done. No lasting health concerns, at all. We were clean, and had regular bathroom habits. One bathroom.

And I would like specifics, since you are accusing them of being criminals.

I did not use the word criminal, and that is uncalled for. The law is not that black and white and like I said, it is interpreted by the County Child Protective Services.

You go look up the law yourself on findlaw.com because I certainly won't do it for you now.

 

[Joe]

Hi All!

My wife and I are friends with the Amish & Mennonites,some of whom have fairly large families and the older kids help out with the younger ones and with household chores and are content in doing so.

In the one-room schools with all ages in the same room, some of the older students work with the younger ones,once their lessons are over. Nothing unusual there.

My pastor has 11 children,10 boys & 1 girl. About half of the boys are grown and married with families of their own. Our previous pastor had 13,including 2 sets of twins. I've watched how the children interacted with each other and find the same things that I see in my Amish & Mennonite friend's families. (We're Reformed Episcopal).

I visited the Duggar Family's Website and looked at the photos. Isn't the appearance of the kids what is pushed by some Baptists: modest dresses,conservative outfits on the boys,long hair on the girls,short hair on the boys,etc. ? When I visit the modest clothing websites,I see women & girls dressed the same as the Duggar girls. So,what's the issue with how they are dressed ?

The one thing that I am concerned with is their involvement with Bill Gothard,enough said...

And another thing that I'm concerned with is the uncharitable spirit that peremeates some of the posts in this thread,how does that reflect Christ to others ?

In Christ,

Dale

]

Hi Dale

Nice to meet you. I prefer modest clothing on children, and I think adults should dress this way too. My concern is that these kids have no input upon their own appearance.
These children dress similarly, and the females are not allowed to wear pants. The links are interesting. The mother says it helps with the task of doing laundry.
As for hair, I feel forcing the kids to have similar haircuts and styles is wrong. The boys all have the same style, the girls do too.

Each Child is different, and their differences should be encouraged. Hope your day is going well

Joe

 

[GLipscomb48]

A problem I have is the statement the Duggars made within minutes, not hours, not days, of having their 17th child. They were already talking of having more children. And yet they say that it is God's will for them to have so many children.

God may be giving the children, but it may not be His will. God does allow things because of man's selfishness or constant praying for something that they want and don't need.

It is quite obvious that this family is letting their wants outweigh their needs.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

A problem I have is the statement the Duggars made within minutes, not hours, not days, of having their 17th child. They were already talking of having more children. And yet they say that it is God's will for them to have so many children.

God may be giving the children, but it may not be His will. God does allow things because of man's selfishness or constant praying for something that they want and don't need.

It is quite obvious that this family is letting their wants outweigh their needs.

What about those selfish, greedy, self-serving adults who are so self-focused that they have no children or limit God's will by selfishly choosing to only have one or two.

It cuts both ways folks.

Neither attitude of criticism is right.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I did not use the word criminal, and that is uncalled for. The law is not that black and white and like I said, it is interpreted by the County Child Protective Services.

You go look up the law yourself on findlaw.com because I certainly won't do it for you now.

You said.....

"There are also problems concerning our laws and children. We are to obey the laws. They are not to be broken, maybe you missed that part too."

I asked what laws are being broken, and you are being quite vague. I'd like some proof that they have broken a law, if you expect me to respect what you type, here. You made the accusation, I would think you would be better prepared to back it up. If not, just say so.

 

[Rufus_1611]

Hi Dale

Nice to meet you. I prefer modest clothing on children, and I think adults should dress this way too. My concern is that these kids have no input upon their own appearance.

According to the word of God, the children are to obey their parents. What level of input the parents give to their children relative to anything is up to the parents, not the children.

"Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord." - Colossians 3:20​

These children dress similarly, and the females are not allowed to wear pants.

This would possibly be because the parents appear to believe in the Bible and they desire that their daughters not wear the garments that pertain to men.

"The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God." - Deuteronomy 22:5​

Even if they are wrong relative to pants on girls (which I know many on this board would believe them to be), it is their decision to make. The father is the head of that house and he will be held accountable unto God for how he ruled his home. Either way, there is nothing abusive or illegal about such a decision.

The links are interesting. The mother says it helps with the task of doing laundry.
As for hair, I feel forcing the kids to have similar haircuts and styles is wrong. The boys all have the same style, the girls do too.

The head of this house is responsible for all that goes on within it. If he decided that it is a glory for the women to wear long hair and it's a shame for the men to wear anything but short hair, then that's how it should be.

"Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?" - 1 Corinthians 11:14

"But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering." - 1 Corinthians 11:15​

The style of their hair would appear to be a natural style and is how God designed them. Must we be critical because the none of the girls have a beehive, boufant, or a dido flip? And none of the boys have a mohawk or whatever that effeminate cut is called that the emerging church men are wearing?

Each Child is different, and their differences should be encouraged. Hope your day is going well

Their differences should be encouraged so long as they conform to the word of God.

Joe

 

[GLipscomb48]

Deuteronomy 22:5 is speaking of battle armor, not pants!

 

[Rufus_1611]

Deuteronomy 22:5 is speaking of battle armor, not pants!

Regardless, what you think it is referring to, the father in each household is accountable for his interpretation and application of scripture.

 

[pinoybaptist]

what in tarnation happened to this thread ?

how come it has gone to things like "child abuse" and "shirking parental responsibility" ?

I don't see these parents abusing their kids, nor them shying away from parental responsibilities, nor making money out of their kids.

i know a lot of parents who have only 1 or 2 kids, are rich, famous, and all that jazz, but the kids may as well be orphans, for all intents and purposes.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I'd rather be one of their kids than Brad & Angelina's. Or Madonna's. Or Britney's.

 

[Joe]

You said.....

"There are also problems concerning our laws and children. We are to obey the laws. They are not to be broken, maybe you missed that part too."

I asked what laws are being broken, and you are being quite vague. I'd like some proof that they have broken a law, if you expect me to respect what you type, here. You made the accusation, I would think you would be better prepared to back it up. If not, just say so.

READ my quotes above. The words do not read as what you are accusing.
Please stop labeling this family as criminals. We can only believe their is a possibility. Now read my posts and see why I say this. Otherwise, I will not repeat myself because you are being lazy. Look up the Child abuse Law yourself, I gave you a link.
what you are doing is unfair, and you have no right to use my name in calling anyone a criminal.
Good bye for now

 

[4boys4joys]

Let Them Be

I wish that we would not judge them. Romans 14:12 says, "So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God." The Duggars will have to answer to God for how many children they had and how they raised them. Some people believe that Birth Control is not right according to scripture and some do. They have had healthy children and they raise them for Christ. We need to encourage our Christian brothers and sisters in the Lord despite our own personal views. They offer a Godly testimony and they have Godly children who are most likely more well behaved than families that have 2 or 3 and have more time to devote to them.

As far as homeschooling is concerned. We question a mother of 17 homeschooling her children for God. Yet we will send our children to a public school classroom and let them be in a class twice that size with a teacher who will never pray for them and will not teach them from the word of God. Can anyone explain that ?

Show scripture that says they are doing something wrong or even unwise and maybe I will listen to the other side of this.I am hard pressed to find any. There was a time where large families where totally acceptable. People will say times have changed,I think the times have changed us.

By the way I am a mother of four. My kids are homeschooled. If they went to public school it would be a right they obtained by birth we pay taxes.Unlike families that have even more than us and are not even citizens of this country they have kids in public school as we speak.

 

[Joe]

According to the word of God, the children are to obey their parents. What level of input the parents give to their children relative to anything is up to the parents, not the children.

"Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord." - Colossians 3:20​

This would possibly be because the parents appear to believe in the Bible and they desire that their daughters not wear the garments that pertain to men.

"The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God." - Deuteronomy 22:5​

Even if they are wrong relative to pants on girls (which I know many on this board would believe them to be), it is their decision to make. The father is the head of that house and he will be held accountable unto God for how he ruled his home. Either way, there is nothing abusive or illegal about such a decision.
The head of this house is responsible for all that goes on within it. If he decided that it is a glory for the women to wear long hair and it's a shame for the men to wear anything but short hair, then that's how it should be.

"Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?" - 1 Corinthians 11:14

"But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering." - 1 Corinthians 11:15​

The style of their hair would appear to be a natural style and is how God designed them. Must we be critical because the none of the girls have a beehive, boufant, or a dido flip? And none of the boys have a mohawk or whatever that effeminate cut is called that the emerging church men are wearing?


Their differences should be encouraged so long as they conform to the word of God.

I appreciate this post, thank you