Armed Citizens Stand Guard at Army Recruiting Stations

[InTheLight]

WASHINGTON — The Army has warned its recruiters to treat the gun-toting civilians gathering at centers across the country in the wake of the Chattanooga, Tenn., shooting as a security threat.

Armed citizens — some associated with activist groups and militias — were standing vigil outside recruiting centers in Wisconsin, Georgia, Tennessee, Idaho and elsewhere this week, saying they want to provide protection to servicemembers barred from carrying firearms on duty. Four Marines and a sailor were killed by Mohammad Youssef Abdulazeez, a 24-year-old Kuwait-born resident of Tennessee, during an attack Thursday on a strip mall recruiting center and a Navy facility that is being investigated as an act of terrorism.

http://www.stripes.com/news/us/army-to-recruiters-treat-armed-citizens-as-security-threat-1.359134


Veterans - - What do you think of this? Is it a good idea to have armed citizens patrolling the area in front of recruiting centers? Is the Army correct in advising recruiters to consider these people a threat?

Seems to me this is a recipe for disaster - - either an accidental shooting or perhaps even a covert attack by people posing as guards.

 

[Zaac]

In the Pantheon of bad ideas, this has got to be one of the worst.

Someone just murdered five people in front of a recruiting station and these guys think it's a good idea to stand outside the recruiting stations with loaded guns?

What recruit or parent with a recruit in tow, considering what just happened, is gonna want to go in?

 

[Thousand Hills]

What recruit or parent with a recruit in tow, considering what just happened, is gonna want to go in?

Saw a news report where the incident has spurred some kids to sign up.

 

[righteousdude2]

WASHINGTON — The Army has warned its recruiters to treat the gun-toting civilians gathering at centers across the country in the wake of the Chattanooga, Tenn., shooting as a security threat.

Armed citizens — some associated with activist groups and militias — were standing vigil outside recruiting centers in Wisconsin, Georgia, Tennessee, Idaho and elsewhere this week, saying they want to provide protection to servicemembers barred from carrying firearms on duty. Four Marines and a sailor were killed by Mohammad Youssef Abdulazeez, a 24-year-old Kuwait-born resident of Tennessee, during an attack Thursday on a strip mall recruiting center and a Navy facility that is being investigated as an act of terrorism.

http://www.stripes.com/news/us/army-to-recruiters-treat-armed-citizens-as-security-threat-1.359134


Veterans - - What do you think of this? Is it a good idea to have armed citizens patrolling the area in front of recruiting centers? Is the Army correct in advising recruiters to consider these people a threat?

Seems to me this is a recipe for disaster - - either an accidental shooting or perhaps even a covert attack by people posing as guards.

Truthfully, when I saw photos of these guys toting guns in the public; I immediately thought of third-world countries where armed militias and cartels have taken to the streets to provide a form of ad-hoc law enforcement.

However, to be honest with you ITL, Obama has to take the blame for this coming about. In many ways, he has been fostering this kind of justice and law enforcement throughout his ill-advised presidency began in 2008.

I see more of this, not less, especially if Muslim communities begin conducting their own form of law enforcement, and if sanctuary cities are permitted to continue! Armed militias and groups will start popping up all over, because the power once entrusted to the cops and military to protect us have been eroded away with all the protests, riots, political condemnation and law suits! As the government tightens the screws on what cops and even what the military (ROE) are permitted to do, people will rise up and provide their own form of protection!

We already do this in gated, armed guard's communities, so this doesn't surprise me one bit. Does it make me feel safe? NO! However, mankind has always done what it had to in order to protect the life of another!

If forced to do so, I would do the same for the community I live in! Take to the streets with guns to enforce the laws the government has decided not to enforce!

:wavey: Great post and even better question! :thumbs:

 

[Zaac]

Saw a news report where the incident has spurred some kids to sign up.

Oh I don't doubt that. Tragedy usually causes a spike in sign ups. I just don't think they are flocking to the recruiting centers with these guys with guns in front after what happened.

 

[righteousdude2]

Oh I don't doubt that. Tragedy usually causes a spike in sign ups. I just don't think they are flocking to the recruiting centers with these guys with guns in front after what happened.

Prove your point. Before you post something like this, know that your thoughts are not good enough. In fact your thoughts don't hold much water as your bucket hs numerous leaks! So prove what you just said. In other words, "Put up or shut up!":tonofbricks: :BangHead:

 

[Salty]

My first thought is over-reaction.

Remember the school shootings - and vets started to stand guard at schools.
Are they still there?

I realize that every life matters, but with the hundreds of recruiters nationwide - is this actually a threat that will continue?

Of course, I would like to know where the Rev Al Sharpton stands on this.....

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Veterans - - What do you think of this? Is it a good idea to have armed citizens patrolling the area in front of recruiting centers?

I agree with the Founders that it is necessary for the citizenry to be armed.

Is the Army correct in advising recruiters to consider these people a threat?

No, the Army would not be correct if that is what they had said.

Seems to me this is a recipe for disaster - - either an accidental shooting or perhaps even a covert attack by people posing as guards.

I'm not all that concerned about a "covert attack" because [Muslims] tend to stand out by their appearance.

In the Pantheon of bad ideas, this has got to be one of the worst.

Someone just murdered five people in front of a recruiting station and these guys think it's a good idea to stand outside the recruiting stations with loaded guns?

Yeah! How dare these guys try to prevent a shooting where five people were just shot!

What recruit or parent with a recruit in tow, considering what just happened, is gonna want to go in?

Why wouldn't they? If they're going to freak out at the sight of somebody with a gun, the military might not be the best career choice for them.

Truthfully, when I saw photos of these guys toting guns in the public; I immediately thought of third-world countries where armed militias and cartels have taken to the streets to provide a form of ad-hoc law enforcement.

Sadly, we more or less are a third world country now.

However, to be honest with you ITL, Obama has to take the blame for this coming about. In many ways, he has been fostering this kind of justice and law enforcement throughout his ill-advised presidency began in 2008.

I agree. He makes his own laws through regulation and ignores the Constitution and laws that are already on the books.

I see more of this, not less, especially if Muslim communities begin conducting their own form of law enforcement, and if sanctuary cities are permitted to continue!

I agree and I think that's a good thing.

Armed militias and groups will start popping up all over, because the power once entrusted to the cops and military to protect us have been eroded away with all the protests, riots, political condemnation and law suits! As the government tightens the screws on what cops and even what the military (ROE) are permitted to do, people will rise up and provide their own form of protection!

I'm actually a big fan of local militias. Oathkeepers, Sherriff Mack, and all that.

Saw a news report where the incident has spurred some kids to sign up.

My son wanted to join the Army for years. He decided he could not because he no longer believed we have a commander in chief who could be trusted.

 

[InTheLight]

LANCASTER, Ohio — The armed civilians who have been guarding a military recruitment center here are gone, ordered off the property after one of them accidentally discharged his rifle on Thursday.

Christopher A. Reed, 28, of Lancaster, was charged with discharging a firearm in the city limits, and was issued a summons to appear in Fairfield County Municipal Court on Tuesday, according to the police incident report.

Reed told police that he was holding his rifle outside the recruitment center when someone asked if he could take a look at it. Reed agreed, and while he was trying to clear the ammunition from the weapon, he accidentally fired one shot into the asphalt pavement.

"I was trying to clear the weapon before I handed it over to him. I thought it was empty but I guess it wasn't", Reed said.

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2015/07/23/recruiting-center-shot-fired.html

 

[Crabtownboy]

Veterans - - What do you think of this?

Terrible idea.

Is it a good idea to have armed citizens patrolling the area in front of recruiting centers?

Very bad idea. We do not need a bunch of vigilantes standing around putting everyone, including themselves in danger.

Is the Army correct in advising recruiters to consider these people a threat?

Oh yes, no question about it.
It was just dumb luck no one was harmed when the fellow accidentally discharged his rifle. He proved what a bad idea it is.

Seems to me this is a recipe for disaster - - either an accidental shooting or perhaps even a covert attack by people posing as guards.

You are absolutely correct. Great opportunity for a terrorist group to show up pretending to be there to protect recruits.

 

[Use of Time]

LANCASTER, Ohio — The armed civilians who have been guarding a military recruitment center here are gone, ordered off the property after one of them accidentally discharged his rifle on Thursday.

Christopher A. Reed, 28, of Lancaster, was charged with discharging a firearm in the city limits, and was issued a summons to appear in Fairfield County Municipal Court on Tuesday, according to the police incident report.

Reed told police that he was holding his rifle outside the recruitment center when someone asked if he could take a look at it. Reed agreed, and while he was trying to clear the ammunition from the weapon, he accidentally fired one shot into the asphalt pavement.

"I was trying to clear the weapon before I handed it over to him. I thought it was empty but I guess it wasn't", Reed said.

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2015/07/23/recruiting-center-shot-fired.html

That didn't take long did it? :laugh: Accidental discharge of a firearm is a significant offense. I've seen careers derailed due to them. I'm not a fan of these people hanging around outside. Just because one is armed does not make someone a trained Soldier. I think many of these guys are doing this guard thing more for a pat on the back and attention but that's my two cents.

I think I am more in favor of finding secure facilities for the recruiters more than anything else. Many of the ones I have seen in my area are just strip mall offices with nothing but glass windows out front. Not very safe.

 

[Lewis]

Veterans - - What do you think of this? Is it a good idea to have armed citizens patrolling the area in front of recruiting centers? Is the Army correct in advising recruiters to consider these people a threat?

What I think needs to happen is for the Army and other branches to allow the recruiters, and other isolated service members, to be armed, or at least have access to weapons and rounds. MP's cannot be everywhere.

 

[InTheLight]

I'm not a fan of these people hanging around outside. Just because one is armed does not make someone a trained Soldier. I think many of these guys are doing this guard thing more for a pat on the back and attention but that's my two cents.

Thanks for weighing in. I'm hoping to hear from Sapper Woody as well, and Revmitchell, I believe he was an MP.


What, these people don't inspire battle confidence?

 

[Sapper Woody]

Deviating from the old "Don't judge a book by its cover", just looking at these guys gives me the impression of people wanting to appear as heroes. A secondary impression is a bunch of "has beens" wanting to be relevant again.

Honestly, I understand the sentiment. I've only been out of the military for less than a year, and I miss it. But this isn't the way to do it.

I believe that some are doing it with good intentions. But it appears that most just want to be looked at.

As to whether it's a good idea or not, I'd have to definitely say no. This has already been shown with an accidental discharge. A group of untrained militia would get slaughtered by a drive by gunman, or someone who pulled out an automatic rifle.

My opinion is that the recruiting stations should be fitted with bulletproof glass (I believe someone else has already thrown this idea out there), and they should have an active duty person assigned to the recruiting station that serves as an armed guard, posted inside the station in a non-threatening manner.

I think that some of the hype about the shooting is just that - hype. People are going crazy with statements like "Recruiters wearing their uniform at schools are just painting a target on their backs". Well, how many recruiters have been shot down at schools? A one-time event does not a disaster make.

In all honesty, it's along the same lines as the "black lives matter" response. A few disconnected incidents have happened, and suddenly there is a "systemic racism and genocide of black people by the police force". That's how many are responding to this. An incident happened, and then we want to jump all over it. If a pattern develops that recruiters are being targeted, then something needs to happen. But one incident does not mean that ISIS has suddenly found a weak spot that they are going to exploit.

The last (and only other) recruiter shooting that I could find with a quick search was back in 2009 in Little Rock, Arkansas. 6 years between two incidents definitely does not define a pattern. If there is another incident in the near future, then I say we get riled up about it. If we over-react to this one, then we're no better than those claiming "systemic racism" in the police force.

So, my overall advice about this situation is to keep calm. Don't overreact. Don't jump to conclusions based upon an isolated event. Rationally assess the situation, and come to a conclusion.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Deviating from the old "Don't judge a book by its cover", just looking at these guys gives me the impression of people wanting to appear as heroes. A secondary impression is a bunch of "has beens" wanting to be relevant again.

Honestly, I understand the sentiment. I've only been out of the military for less than a year, and I miss it. But this isn't the way to do it.

I believe that some are doing it with good intentions. But it appears that most just want to be looked at.

As to whether it's a good idea or not, I'd have to definitely say no. This has already been shown with an accidental discharge. A group of untrained militia would get slaughtered by a drive by gunman, or someone who pulled out an automatic rifle.

My opinion is that the recruiting stations should be fitted with bulletproof glass (I believe someone else has already thrown this idea out there), and they should have an active duty person assigned to the recruiting station that serves as an armed guard, posted inside the station in a non-threatening manner.

I think that some of the hype about the shooting is just that - hype. People are going crazy with statements like "Recruiters wearing their uniform at schools are just painting a target on their backs". Well, how many recruiters have been shot down at schools? A one-time event does not a disaster make.

In all honesty, it's along the same lines as the "black lives matter" response. A few disconnected incidents have happened, and suddenly there is a "systemic racism and genocide of black people by the police force". That's how many are responding to this. An incident happened, and then we want to jump all over it. If a pattern develops that recruiters are being targeted, then something needs to happen. But one incident does not mean that ISIS has suddenly found a weak spot that they are going to exploit.

The last (and only other) recruiter shooting that I could find with a quick search was back in 2009 in Little Rock, Arkansas. 6 years between two incidents definitely does not define a pattern. If there is another incident in the near future, then I say we get riled up about it. If we over-react to this one, then we're no better than those claiming "systemic racism" in the police force.

So, my overall advice about this situation is to keep calm. Don't overreact. Don't jump to conclusions based upon an isolated event. Rationally assess the situation, and come to a conclusion.

So I'm guessing we're not going to be seeing you down at the Oathkeepers' meetings anytime soon, huh?

 

[carpro]

LANCASTER, Ohio — The armed civilians who have been guarding a military recruitment center here are gone, ordered off the property after one of them accidentally discharged his rifle on Thursday.

Oops!

This bothers me on several levels.

First, it is a shame that our recruiting offices need protection.

Second, the idea that people are standing out there with loaded guns and none of them have been vetted, as far as I know, makes me nervous.

Third, the fact that rounds are chambered takes this to a whole new level.

Some are probably well meaning and making a statement. Others may want to just be seen. I can't judge their motives.

But I don't believe any of them would be there if recruiters had the means to protect themselves.

This "gun free zone" insanity for our military has to stop, especially since we know they are terrorist targets. If we can't trust them with weapons, we're all in deep stuff.

 

[Rolfe]

SapperWoody, Carpro- Good posts.

 

[Zaac]

Deviating from the old "Don't judge a book by its cover", just looking at these guys gives me the impression of people wanting to appear as heroes. A secondary impression is a bunch of "has beens" wanting to be relevant again.

Honestly, I understand the sentiment. I've only been out of the military for less than a year, and I miss it. But this isn't the way to do it.

I believe that some are doing it with good intentions. But it appears that most just want to be looked at.

As to whether it's a good idea or not, I'd have to definitely say no. This has already been shown with an accidental discharge. A group of untrained militia would get slaughtered by a drive by gunman, or someone who pulled out an automatic rifle.

My opinion is that the recruiting stations should be fitted with bulletproof glass (I believe someone else has already thrown this idea out there), and they should have an active duty person assigned to the recruiting station that serves as an armed guard, posted inside the station in a non-threatening manner.

I think that some of the hype about the shooting is just that - hype. People are going crazy with statements like "Recruiters wearing their uniform at schools are just painting a target on their backs". Well, how many recruiters have been shot down at schools? A one-time event does not a disaster make.

In all honesty, it's along the same lines as the "black lives matter" response. A few disconnected incidents have happened, and suddenly there is a "systemic racism and genocide of black people by the police force". That's how many are responding to this. An incident happened, and then we want to jump all over it. If a pattern develops that recruiters are being targeted, then something needs to happen. But one incident does not mean that ISIS has suddenly found a weak spot that they are going to exploit.

The last (and only other) recruiter shooting that I could find with a quick search was back in 2009 in Little Rock, Arkansas. 6 years between two incidents definitely does not define a pattern. If there is another incident in the near future, then I say we get riled up about it. If we over-react to this one, then we're no better than those claiming "systemic racism" in the police force.

So, my overall advice about this situation is to keep calm. Don't overreact. Don't jump to conclusions based upon an isolated event. Rationally assess the situation, and come to a conclusion.

Yet if police officers had killed as many unarmed former servicemen as they have unarmed black men and women, I don't think you would make the false equivalency.

 

[Zaac]

Thanks for weighing in. I'm hoping to hear from Sapper Woody as well, and Revmitchell, I believe he was an MP.


What, these people don't inspire battle confidence?

They frankly need to go sit down somewhere before someone gets killed.

Gosh if someone wants to shoot up a recruiting station, all he has to do now is dress like one of these folks and pretend like he's there to stand guard.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

They frankly need to go sit down somewhere before someone gets killed.

Gosh if someone wants to shoot up a recruiting station, all he has to do now is dress like one of these folks and pretend like he's there to stand guard.

Yeah, because Muslims don't stand out by their appearance at all.