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Arminianism and Calvinism

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by SheepWhisperer, Jul 25, 2017.

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  1. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    Arminianism teaches men that God is untrustworthy and an indian giver.

    Calvinism teaches men that God is selfish and that His love is limited.
     
    #1 SheepWhisperer, Jul 25, 2017
  2. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Universalism teaches that all humans will ultimately choose God, whether in this life or the next.

    I suspect that the op believes none of the above.
     
    #2 MennoSota, Jul 25, 2017
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  3. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Please do not blaspheme God nor post falsehoods regarding fellow forum members.
     
    #3 TCassidy, Jul 25, 2017
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  4. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    That is correct. "Universalism" is false doctrine as well. The Bible teaches that Hell is real and when you die, there are no second chances.

    Luke 16
    22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

    23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

    24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
     
    #4 SheepWhisperer, Jul 25, 2017
  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Please provide the documentation that Arminianism teaches that God is untrustworthy and an "Indian giver" (is that a politically correct term?).

    Please provide the documentation that Calvinism teaches men that God is selfish and that His love is limited.
     
    #5 JonC, Jul 28, 2017
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  6. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    "Please provide the documentation that Calvinism teaches men that God is selfish and that His love is limited."

    LOL:Laugh


    Oh that's right Calvinism teaches God loves everyone and doesn't send folks to hell to show off how great he is.
     
    #6 utilyan, Jul 29, 2017
  7. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Three children are drowning in a lake, a man appears, he could save the three, pulls one out the water and tells him he actually deserves to drown. It is an absolute miracle he would decide to help anyone! So that child should be thankful he didn't leave him to die as he has full right to. And he is going to let the other two drown to show the world how great he is.

    Three children are drowning in a lake, a man appears, he could save the three, so he pulls all three out the water.

    Which of these men is the most honorable?




















    Guess which is Calvinist Jesus?

    I'm not guessing, YOU are guessing.
     
    #7 utilyan, Jul 29, 2017
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    All who go to Jell have chosen to go there, as they kept on rejecting Jesus to save them "willingly"
     
    #8 Yeshua1, Jul 29, 2017
  9. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Oh so Jesus WANTS TO right? BUT GOD is to weak to get what he wants, correct?

    It sounds like you gave yourself credit for salvation.

    The insult you made on God goes like this:

    You don't believe your idea of God is good, I have never heard a Calvinist praise God for being good, I've only heard plenty call God good.

    Calvinist cannot dare to say their IDEA of GOD is evil out of fear, Like a NAZI peon who doesn't question the order. Like one who would be satisfied with their own mother or child in hell as LONG as they get their "reward".

    A EVIL SATANIC meglomaniac..... WOULD BE AN IMPROVEMENT on the idea of a Calvinist god.


    Sheer POWER is greater then Goodness or Love has always been EVIL's view. Sheer POWER is the very core doctrine of Calvinism and the only thing that matters, You label it God's sovereignty.



    Evil is Evil no matter how universally GOOD it is declared.
     
    #9 utilyan, Jul 29, 2017
  10. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    A man appears and tells them that he really wants to save them all and then doesn't save any of them but allows them to scramble ashore if they can.











    Could it be the Utilyan god?
     
    #10 Martin Marprelate, Jul 29, 2017
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God gets EXACTLY ALL whom He intended to get saved by the death of Christ!
     
    #11 Yeshua1, Jul 29, 2017
  12. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Why don't you like my post? I never said which is your God. I left it up to you to fill in the blanks.

    You are convicting yourself brother.


    My God saves all.
     
    #12 utilyan, Jul 29, 2017
  13. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    #1
    Three blind children are drowning in a lake. All three deserve to drown because they Owner of the lake plainly told them not to go swimming in his lake. They're all holding onto something which is sinking. The Owner appears, has compassion on ONLY ONE of them and quietly whispers to him, "let go of that and grab my hand". The One grabs his hand and the other two never knew that a rescuer was near. The owner lets the other two drown because he only chose to save the one. Some people mourn their loss but the owner doesn't care.

    #2
    Three blind children are drowning in a lake. All three deserve to drown because they Owner of the lake plainly told them not to go swimming in his lake. They're all holding onto something which is sinking. The Owner appears has compassion on them all and says, let go of that and grab my hand. He pleads with them to let go and grab. Onje grabs his hand but two still refuse. They drown. The one who was saved tells everyone how the compassionate owner desperately tried to save them ALL.

    Who was the real hero?
     
    #13 SheepWhisperer, Jul 31, 2017
  14. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    How many blind children got saved in example 1?
    How many blind children got saved in example 2?

    However, the third example is this:

    #3
    Three blind children are drowning in a lake. All three deserve to drown because they Owner of the lake plainly told them not to go swimming in his lake. They're all holding onto something which is sinking. The Owner appears has compassion on them all and says, let go of that and grab my hand. He pleads with them to let go and grab. All three refuse. So the Owner of the lake wades into the water and grabs one of them, who is His child, and brings him to land.

    As it is written, 'All day long I have stretched out My hands to a disobedient and contrary people' (Isaiah 65:2; Romans 10:21).
     
    #14 Martin Marprelate, Jul 31, 2017
  15. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    Not Biblical. You cannot be a child until you are born. You cannot be God's child until you are "born of the Spirit"
    The one who does not refuse gets "born again".
     
    #15 SheepWhisperer, Jul 31, 2017
  16. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    I always thought that "indian giver" referred back to the time that the US Government would make promises to the Native Americans only to dishonor the agreements later. But I just looked it up and apparently it was something else entirely. My apologies.
    But from my understanding, those who hold to an "Arminian" type belief, say that God can save a person, and later take that salvation away if the "apostasize". No, an "Arminian" would not openly say "God is trustworthy" but I would assess from that that He wasn't.
     
    #16 SheepWhisperer, Jul 31, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2017
  17. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    And thats honorable right martin? He could save all three but decides just to save one. In real life you would find that acceptable. You would call this person a great person because although he can save all 3 he decides to only save one.
     
    #17 utilyan, Jul 31, 2017
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  18. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Utilyan, if the three drowning people had killed the Owners son, what obligation does the owner have to save the criminals?

    It amazes me how highly you think of yourself. Do you think your high esteem is warranted in light of the hundreds of times you have broken God's law?
     
    #18 MennoSota, Jul 31, 2017
  19. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    So if there is three children one is yours. Guy saves one and not yours because he is a criminal, You call him a real hero.

    But if another man saves all three CHILDREN MIND YOU, Including YOURS, you would call him an idiot?

    You don't have a clue on how to be christian. You only love those who love you. Jesus taught that is WORTHLESS.
     
    #19 utilyan, Jul 31, 2017
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  20. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    Problem with that is: nobody "killed" the Owner's Son. he laid down His life "of Himself" the Bible says.

    Here's the deal:
    We are all born sinners. True, God is all powerful and He can decide to kill us all like ants if he wants. But thankfully God is not like that. What He CHOSE to do, was to offer the life of His only begotten son as the sacrifice for all sinners. Jesus' blood was sufficient for every sin and every sinner. His power, his knowledge, his love and His salvation is not limited. So to keep you from going to Hell, all He asks is that you believe on His Son as the propitiation for your sins. "ONLY believe" the Bible says. But wait!! Is that weak? No sir. If you refuse His Son, He will cast you into the Lake of Fire for all eternity for refusing His boundless love and Grace. Your fault, your choice.

    On the other hand, if someone says that the God of the Bible predetermined only certain ones for Hell, yeah that would be His prerogative IF....IF God wanted to. But that is not the character and intent of the God of the Bible. That would be twisting His Holy Word into something it doesn't say.
     
    #20 SheepWhisperer, Jul 31, 2017
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