Artificial Milk

[Helen]

We subscribe to the Berean Call, and T.A. McMahon has an article that just arrived in the February 2007 issue that needs to be read. It is, or should be, a wake-up call to all Bible-believing Christians. I would like to quote from some parts of it here, and encourage folks to read it. It is online here: http://www.thebereancall.org/Newsletter/pdf/2007/feb07.pdf
(the article itself starts on page 3)

"Apostasy is rampant within the evangelical church today... At a certain point in the future, there will be a total rejection of biblical Christianity, succeeded by the religion of the Antichrist; it will maintain a veneer of Christianity that will prove acceptable to all religions. This perversion of Christianity doesn't just suddenly happen once the Antichrist appears. The deception process began long ago in the Garden of Eden with Satan's seduction of Eve, and it is becoming more and more of a corrupting influence with in Christianity as the time of the appearing of the false messiah...draws near.

...The chief error today in the evangelical church is that experiences (feelings, emotions, passions, intuitions, etc.) have become the guide for entering into and attempting to establish true spirituality. Rather than subjective feelings and emotions being present as a result of one's adherence to sound doctrine, they have become the judge of whether or not something is truly Christian. Instead of testing a teaching or practice or situation by the Word of God, the arbiter becomes 'how one feels about it.' This puts the human imagination in the seat of judgment. That thought alone should provoke an emotion in the heart of eveyr Bible-believing Christian: sheer horror!

...The seeker-sensitive church-growth movement has pushed experientialism (and its close kin, pragmatism) into overdrive through the power of marketing. Sound doctrine, necessarily, is left by the wayside while churches meet the 'felt needs' of consumers who are targeted as potential Christians.

...conviction of sin doesn't feel good, nor does it sell well.... While the orchestra searches for a contemporary chorus replacement for 'Nearer My God to Thee,' the vessel is sinking into the depths of compromise...This is the way that seems right to the world and to an astounding number of those who profess to believe the Bible.

Ironically, our day is seeing more Christian media and entertainment, and more Bibles of every sort. yet, the result is a corruption of God's truth because there is no heart for sound biblical doctrine, especially since marketing departments are now leading the way!"

The full article is definitely worth the read. It is two pages long.

edited to correct spelling

 

[npetreley]

Definitely worth reading. Thanks for the link.

 

[AAA]

We subscribe to the Berean Call, and T.A. McMahon has an article that just arrived in the February 2007 issue that needs to be read. It is, or should be, a wake-up call to all Bible-believing Christians. I would like to quote from some parts of it here, and encourage folks to read it. It is online here: http://www.thebereancall.org/Newsletter/pdf/2007/feb07.pdf
(the article itself starts on page 3)

The full article is definitely worth the read. It is two pages long.

Yes, the great falling away has already started, but GOD shall still have a remnant chosen by GRACE!

That is somthing that we as Christians can rejoyce in...Today and forever....

:godisgood:

 

[gb93433]

We subscribe to the Berean Call, and T.A. McMahon has an article that just arrived in the February 2007 issue that needs to be read. It is, or should be, a wake-up call to all Bible-believing Christians.

I think the problem goes much deeper and has existed much longer. I believe that it has existed for more than 50 years.

The church has had at least two generations of dead pew warmers who have not done evangelism and made disciples. They started many programs catering to the whims of people as if church was about getting a hamburger and a milk shake. They were programmed to fail and the price is being paid today. A lot of denominations have gurus today who work dreaming up "new and better" programs. I have never seen any program improve on God's program and the Holy Spirit.

We have parents (Christians included) who buy their kids everything and complain when teachers give homework in the schools. When I taught high school seldom did I have a student complain about homework load but over the years I had parents complain telling me that school should be fun. I would respond back by telling them that learning is work and the reward of learning was the fun part.

Today we have children being parented by the "fun" generation who were parented and taught by a previous "fun" genration. Parents spend more on their entertainment than they do on the education of themselves and their children. Even here on the BB we have men wanting to be pastors and get an education the easy way with little sacrifice. If they wanted an education bad enough then they would pay the price to get it. The problem is that they do not want it bad enough.

As much as I am against them I cannot blame everything on the seeker sensitive churches. It is like blaming the world for my relationship with God. I also see a lot of churches that "preach the right stuff" but are just as dead as though they never existed. They are in their holy huddle pointing fingers at the world which is lost but never reaching them and certainly not discipling anyone.

 

[Scarlett O.]

I think the problem goes much deeper and has existed much longer. I believe that it has existed for more than 50 years.

The church has had at least two generations of dead pew warmers who have not done evangelism and made disciples. They started many programs catering to the whims of people as if church was about getting a hamburger and a milk shake. They were programmed to fail and the price is being paid today. A lot of denominations have gurus today who work dreaming up "new and better" programs. I have never seen any program improve on God's program and the Holy Spirit.

We have parents (Christians included) who buy their kids everything and complain when teachers give homework in the schools. When I taught high school seldom did I have a student complain about homework load but over the years I had parents complain telling me that school should be fun. I would respond back by telling them that learning is work and the reward of learning was the fun part.

Today we have children being parented by the "fun" generation who were parented and taught by a previous "fun" genration. Parents spend more on their entertainment than they do on the education of themselves and their children. Even here on the BB we have men wanting to be pastors and get an education the easy way with little sacrifice. If they wanted an education bad enough then they would pay the price to get it. The problem is that they do not want it bad enough.

As much as I am against them I cannot blame everything on the seeker sensitive churches. It is like blaming the world for my relationship with God. I also see a lot of churches that "preach the right stuff" but are just as dead as thought they never existed. They are in their holy huddle pointing fingers at the world which is lost but never reaching them and certainly not discipling anyone.

Very keen observation. You have made some excellent points.

 

[webdog]

While the article had some truths, it's filled with assumptions, legalism and personal convictions. I also find it kind of hypocritical to attack the "marketing" of seeker sensitive churches, while on the very first page they "market" their dvd's.

 

[Helen]

Two different things, webdog. There is nothing hypocritical about letting people know what is for sale/what is available. On the other hand, to alter the biblical message in order to become 'seeker friendly' is what is being spoken against.

In the meantime, could you please point out what you consider to be the detracting "assumptions, legalism and personal convictions" which bother you?

Thank you.

 

[trainbrainmommy]

We have parents (Christians included) who buy their kids everything and complain when teachers give homework in the schools. When I taught high school seldom did I have a student complain about homework load but over the years I had parents complain telling me that school should be fun. I would respond back by telling them that learning is work and the reward of learning was the fun part.

Schools and teachers used to teach more content in class and sent home less fluffwork. The education our parents and grandparents received was more thorough and in most cases more complex than what is taught today (think diagramming sentences). I have taught HS English which tends to generate a lot of homework. I, however, attempted to teach more in class and send home only what was not completed in class. Homework was reserved for creative projects that were assigned the first day of school. I strongly feel teachers need to use their classtime more efficiently and send home less work.

I also see a lot of churches that "preach the right stuff" but are just as dead as thought they never existed. They are in their holy huddle pointing fingers at the world which is lost but never reaching them and certainly not discipling anyone.

Amen!

 

[webdog]

"Apostasy is rampant within the evangelical church today... At a certain point in the future, there will be a total rejection of biblical Christianity, succeeded by the religion of the Antichrist; it will maintain a veneer of Christianity that will prove acceptable to all religions.

I believe this is an assumption given the fact the author believes this is happening in true churches (not "churches" in name only)

...The chief error today in the evangelical church is that experiences (feelings, emotions, passions, intuitions, etc.) have become the guide for entering into and attempting to establish true spirituality.

This is blatantly false, and very legalistic. While I agree there are some churches out there that this might apply to, to claim THE evangelical church bases everything off emotions and feelings is simply not true.

While the orchestra searches for a contemporary chorus replacement for 'Nearer My God to Thee,' the vessel is sinking into the depths of compromise

How do you not see the legalism here?

Ironically, our day is seeing more Christian media and entertainment, and more Bibles of every sort.

...and here?!?

On the surface it looks like this is written by an IFB KJVO pharisee, without ever looking at the author's background.

 

[npetreley]

Two different things, webdog. There is nothing hypocritical about letting people know what is for sale/what is available. On the other hand, to alter the biblical message in order to become 'seeker friendly' is what is being spoken against.

Exactly. I don't see any hypopcrisy there.

I liked the article very much. It describes one big reason why I've had such a problem finding a good home church here, and why I felt the Baptist Church we attended in Missouri was abhorrent. The other big reason is my own fault. I got discouraged for the better part of a year, but I'm getting motivated again, so pray first that there is a living church nearby and second that we'll find it.

 

[Helen]

webdog, I think if you take the time to read the whole article and not just what I quoted, you will find you have misconceived some things.

As far as which churches he is speaking to/about, it is a general warning of what he has seen. And from what my husband and I have seen where we have spoken, we find he is pretty accurate in his assessment.

As far as 'more Bibles of every sort' he is speaking of the Bibles which are coming out in seemingly rather quick succession here which are changing actual meanings, such as the "Revare" Bible (I'm sure I misspelled that) which he discussed in a previous article. It is not a matter of being KJVO.

Please, just read the article and take the warning as given. If it does not apply to churches you know, then God bless you! We are very aware of this trend out here on the west coast. In the town where I live there are churches everywhere you look. And most of them preach a watered-down sweetness and try to lure folk away from other congregations! A pastor of one of the larger churches got fired for having an affair with his secretary. Another pastor is in jail for embezzlement. There are all kinds of concerts and other church entertainments here and VBS's all summer long for the kids to have fun at (I'm not knocking VBS, folks). AWANA is great for fun and competitions and only marginally Christian here.

But doctrine? Actually obeying Christ and following Him and knowing the Bible. Much too legalistic....

 

[Helen]

Exactly. I don't see any hypopcrisy there.

I liked the article very much. It describes one big reason why I've had such a problem finding a good home church here, and why I felt the Baptist Church we attended in Missouri was abhorrent. The other big reason is my own fault. I got discouraged for the better part of a year, but I'm getting motivated again, so pray first that there is a living church nearby and second that we'll find it.

Have prayed.

 

[webdog]

On the other hand, to alter the biblical message in order to become 'seeker friendly' is what is being spoken against.

I didn't see this. Maybe because I'm so tired of defending what kind of music churches use, what kind of translations churches use, and dress while at church. As I pointed out, it seems the author has a problem with the music, "emotion", translations and the general experience at a church like Saddleback in general without ever knowing what biblical message is actually being "altered" and taught in these "seeker sensitve" churches. The article is heavy on the "bash those who don't do what I do" element. Also, if you are going to bash marketing used by "seeker sensitive" churches, it doesn't look real good to sell your merchandise on the very first page of page 12.

 

[webdog]

webdog, I think if you take the time to read the whole article and not just what I quoted, you will find you have misconceived some things.

As far as which churches he is speaking to/about, it is a general warning of what he has seen. And from what my husband and I have seen where we have spoken, we find he is pretty accurate in his assessment.

As far as 'more Bibles of every sort' he is speaking of the Bibles which are coming out in seemingly rather quick succession here which are changing actual meanings, such as the "Revare" Bible (I'm sure I misspelled that) which he discussed in a previous article. It is not a matter of being KJVO.

Please, just read the article and take the warning as given. If it does not apply to churches you know, then God bless you! We are very aware of this trend out here on the west coast. In the town where I live there are churches everywhere you look. And most of them preach a watered-down sweetness and try to lure folk away from other congregations! A pastor of one of the larger churches got fired for having an affair with his secretary. Another pastor is in jail for embezzlement. There are all kinds of concerts and other church entertainments here and VBS's all summer long for the kids to have fun at (I'm not knocking VBS, folks). AWANA is great for fun and competitions and only marginally Christian here.

But doctrine? Actually obeying Christ and following Him and knowing the Bible. Much too legalistic....

You assume I haven't read the whole article. I only touched on the points you felt were important enough to include in the OP along with the link.

 

[mnw]

Its a good article Helen, thanks.

I think the writer makes some very good points. TO me, music, translations and dress are things that have meaning. Maybe I don't put as much weight on them as others, but they do matter. I think many give up on them because they have grown tired of extremes rather than for good reasons.

What gets me is some people approve of little steps but condemn the outcome at the end of the path. Sadly, it is the little steps they think are harmless that lead to the ultimate problems.

My experiance has been that the churches that abandoned certain old standards have eventually dropped key doctrines and personal experiance has slowly replaced God-focused worship, service and living.

This is not true of every church, but just most in my experiance.

If I am wrong in my observations, then I sincerely pray, "Lord, teach me."

 

[gb93433]

Schools and teachers used to teach more content in class and sent home less fluffwork. The education our parents and grandparents received was more thorough and in most cases more complex than what is taught today (think diagramming sentences). I have taught HS English which tends to generate a lot of homework. I, however, attempted to teach more in class and send home only what was not completed in class. Homework was reserved for creative projects that were assigned the first day of school. I strongly feel teachers need to use their classtime more efficiently and send home less work.

Why not have more homework and efficient use of class time? Why not teach them more in less time? When the students work harder that means that the teacher must work harder also. When I teach a Bible study I require that those in the Bible study do work at home as well. I tell them that I am not there to let people Share Their Ignorance but rather what they have studied. Sometimes there is someone who will indicate that they do not know anything. I tell them to give it a try because we will discuss everything. A few months later there is huge difference and “the light bulb comes on”.

Several years ago when I first started teaching high school, the students had not been to a competition in 8 years. At the end of the year some of my students entered a competition and took the first three places. Those students had a much different attitude when they came home excited. After the first year it was like feeding corn to chickens. Before the first competition I knew some students did not like my demands and some parents told me also. Some of the students could hardly read and did not acre much about school. After that first year I continually saw an improvement in their attitude toward school and its importance. Undisciplined students are often undisciplined in other areas of their life.

While I taught high school they needed someone to teach basic math for one year because more students were enrolled. I agreed and found out that many of the students had just been passed along. I assigned them homework each day. The head of the math department told me they would not do it and that he does not give homework for that reason. I told him that they would do the homework or fail. At the end of the first quarter ½ of the class failed. The principal called me up and we talked about the class because parents had been calling. By the end of the first semester only two had failed. They seldom showed up for school. By the end of the second semester every student passed and almost everyone of them had As and Bs.

In another class I taught a student came to me at the end of the first semester and told me that the grades he had gotten were the best he had ever seen. Because his grades were so low in the first few years he could not compete in athletics. He showed me his grades and everyone of them were As and Bs. He was proud of what he had accomplished. He thanked me and his English teacher for holding him to a high standard.

At the end of a first quarter I had a pastor’s daughter come to me and tell me that I was mean because I had given her a failing grade. She was mad and wanted to know why I had given her an F. I told her that she earned an F by skipping class and not doing her work. She also informed me that her parents were not happy and that if she did not pass the class she would not graduate. I told her that I graded on the semester and that the quarter grade was just an indicator and not the final grade. I also told her that I was there before and after school and that she could also come in during brunch and lunch. She decided that she would come in as often as she could. She started coming to class and came in many other times. She ended up as one of the top students and developed a much different attitude. Later she thanked me for helping her and told me about how proud she was of her accomplishments. She left with a much different attitude then she came in the door with.

Today I am at a university. I tell the students to expect about 3 hours of homework outside of class for every hour in class. One of the other professors does the same thing. However until I came he was by himself in that matter. The students would complain about him. This year the students have a completely different attitude. Three years ago we had about four employers come to the campus to interview students in the program I am in. Last year we had about seven. This year we have 34 lined up. Those students who did not care much a few years ago now care and are involved in some extracurricular activities. There is a polish and an attitude among the students that was not there previously. What a difference their attitude makes when you are in class. Last semester I handed a paper back to a student because it was not up to a high quality standard. I knew that he did not have as many skills as he should have to do a nice job. He was willing to accept a lower grade but I told him he could do better. He came to my office and I worked through the paper with him. When he turned in the final paper it was much different and so was his attitude. He called me on the phone about on e week later to apologize for his attitude. I want my students to be successful. I am not concerned where they come form or where they are now but where they will be. Some must move further than others because of their lack of preparation. My job is to help the students be well prepared not just get them through

School is a place to learn so that students are well prepared for the world when they leave. We can tell them they are good students and pat them on the back but the world will tell them what they are really like once they leave.