"And now the rest of the story" The ICE agent who shot the woman
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As Paul Harvey said:
- Thread starter Salty
- Start date
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
I saw that the article says that he wasn’t run into.
Front of the vehicle footage shows him being moved by the vehicle.
It’s not surprising that you can’t see him being pushed by the front bumper through a clear view of the back bumper.
Just what I’ve seen. I’m nobody’s judge here. Just sharing another side of the vehicle.
I miss listening to him.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
I saw the video and that seemed to be a split second response to someone trying to run you over.
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
With only a split second to respond, and considering what the last guy did, I can see why he made that decision. He was committed to the decision before you see it happen. I don’t think he was haphazardly using his limbs.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
I watched multiple angles of video.
Without knowing all the details (we don’t know what she said or if she had weapons), if it is only as it appears..
1. She was driving off.
2. He was at the side, no danger of being run over. He was the aggressor in trying to prevent her from driving off (which may have been appropriate if effecting an arrest.
3. He fired multiple shots after he was away from the vehicle, even if he thought she had put him in danger when he was close, there was no danger when she drove off.
4. At most, she had committed low level crimes at that point, and nothing worthy of deadly force
This was unjustifiable use of force.
If he was traumatized by previous experience, he should have been assigned to a desk and given counseling.
He should be indicted for voluntary manslaughter, but he won’t.
Very very sad.
Peace to you
Without knowing all the details (we don’t know what she said or if she had weapons), if it is only as it appears..
1. She was driving off.
2. He was at the side, no danger of being run over. He was the aggressor in trying to prevent her from driving off (which may have been appropriate if effecting an arrest.
3. He fired multiple shots after he was away from the vehicle, even if he thought she had put him in danger when he was close, there was no danger when she drove off.
4. At most, she had committed low level crimes at that point, and nothing worthy of deadly force
This was unjustifiable use of force.
If he was traumatized by previous experience, he should have been assigned to a desk and given counseling.
He should be indicted for voluntary manslaughter, but he won’t.
Very very sad.
Peace to you
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
I am not sure what video you looked at but the person that shot the driver was not at the side of the car but rather in front of it.
The officer would have heard the engine rev and reacted to the threat. You can see that the first shot went through the windshield which would be impossible if he were standing at the side of the car.
Was the officer wrong to have walked in front of the car Yes was she wrong to drive toward him Yes. The action was split second. It is easy to sit back and say well this or that but the reality is none of us know how we would have reacted in the same situation.
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
Short story, the claim is that she was not an innocent passer by.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Please provide a link where the ICE agent was in front of the vehicle. I just saw another cell phone video of the incident that shows him approach from the drivers side. Another is toward the rear, maybe approaching the passenger door.
The ICE agent approaches from the side and demands the woman get out of the vehicle. She puts the car in gear and pulls forward, stopping for a bystander (taking the video) to move. The agent lunges at the vehicle as she pulls forward and he starts shooting.
Multiple problems for the ICE agent.
1. The only “crime” was the woman was blocking the street with a stopped car. That is a minor traffic violation. The agent has no authority to enforce traffic laws, anywhere other than at Federal facilities. The agents lives were not in danger by her stopped vehicle.
2. The agent did not tell the woman she was under arrest. He told her, “get out of the car” which he had no authority to do. She could not be guilty of resisting arrest, because she wasn’t under arrest.
3. The woman did not appear to have any weapons or make any threats. This officer put himself in the position next to her vehicle with no lawful authority to do so.
4. As stated before, the ICE agent fired multiple shots after he was no longer near the vehicle. He was not in danger when he fired those shots.
Bottom line, the ICE agent approached the vehicle and, with a clearly angry tone, demanded the woman get out of the vehicle. He had no authority to do that.
He was angry she was blocking the street and was going to make her pay for his inconvenience, perhaps by attempting to intimidate her or maybe attempting an arrest, though he lacked the authority to do either.
She ignored him and attempted to drive off. He shot and killed her, making her pay the ultimate price for his inconvenience.
This is clearly an unauthorized use of force. The ICE agent should be indicted.
Peace to you
The ICE agent approaches from the side and demands the woman get out of the vehicle. She puts the car in gear and pulls forward, stopping for a bystander (taking the video) to move. The agent lunges at the vehicle as she pulls forward and he starts shooting.
Multiple problems for the ICE agent.
1. The only “crime” was the woman was blocking the street with a stopped car. That is a minor traffic violation. The agent has no authority to enforce traffic laws, anywhere other than at Federal facilities. The agents lives were not in danger by her stopped vehicle.
2. The agent did not tell the woman she was under arrest. He told her, “get out of the car” which he had no authority to do. She could not be guilty of resisting arrest, because she wasn’t under arrest.
3. The woman did not appear to have any weapons or make any threats. This officer put himself in the position next to her vehicle with no lawful authority to do so.
4. As stated before, the ICE agent fired multiple shots after he was no longer near the vehicle. He was not in danger when he fired those shots.
Bottom line, the ICE agent approached the vehicle and, with a clearly angry tone, demanded the woman get out of the vehicle. He had no authority to do that.
He was angry she was blocking the street and was going to make her pay for his inconvenience, perhaps by attempting to intimidate her or maybe attempting an arrest, though he lacked the authority to do either.
She ignored him and attempted to drive off. He shot and killed her, making her pay the ultimate price for his inconvenience.
This is clearly an unauthorized use of force. The ICE agent should be indicted.
Peace to you
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Who said she was an innocent passerby?
This story is a smear piece that has nothing to do with the legality of shooting.
Peace to you
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
I will say this again.
For this to be a justifiable use of force, the ICE agent must be lawfully engaging in his duties.
He had no authority to enforce traffic laws. He had no authority to demand she get out of her vehicle. He had no authority to approach her vehicle on a public street.
She was not making threats. She was sitting in a stopped vehicle.
He was not lawfully engaged in his duties when he approached her vehicle. The use of force cannot be considered justified.
I am a “support the police by default” kind of person, unless it is shown to be otherwise. This has shown itself to be an unlawful use of force.
Peace to you
For this to be a justifiable use of force, the ICE agent must be lawfully engaging in his duties.
He had no authority to enforce traffic laws. He had no authority to demand she get out of her vehicle. He had no authority to approach her vehicle on a public street.
She was not making threats. She was sitting in a stopped vehicle.
He was not lawfully engaged in his duties when he approached her vehicle. The use of force cannot be considered justified.
I am a “support the police by default” kind of person, unless it is shown to be otherwise. This has shown itself to be an unlawful use of force.
Peace to you
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
I don’t know where the first video I saw is. I will keep looking.
This NY Post article shows video of it. The agent seen walking up to the car telling her to get out is not the one who shot her. He is a third agent and not visible immediately in the video because he is in front of the car.
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
Someone is going to hate me for this one but here is Blaze media playing NBC’s breakdown of the incident.
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
Some quick points to throw out there.
First shot went through the windshield. That means he was in the front when the shots started.
The vehicle was not stopped. It was moving.
And a moving vehicle counts as a big weapon.
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
NBC also freezes the frame before the vehicle touches him. If they continued to play it as whoever did in the first video I saw, you would see the vehicle run into him.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the link and info.
I have not seen any video that shows an agent in front of the vehicle. A bullet can travel through a window in either direction.
Even if he was in front of the vehicle (I haven’t seen any evidence that is true) it doesn’t change the fact he must be lawfully engaged in his duties for this to be justified. ICE agents enforce immigration laws, not minor traffic laws.
He has no authority to enforce traffic laws on a city street. He has no authority to approach her vehicle and demand she get out. She wasn’t making threats. She had no weapon.
Clearly, this is unjustified. I will not be surprised to see a state indictment for voluntary manslaughter in this case. This agent may very well go to prison for this.
Peace to you
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
In the video I saw, the agent closed the distance as she began to drive away and placed himself just outside the drivers door, near the mirror. Contact was made. He immediately opened fire, which makes me think he drew his weapon before he closed the distance, as soon as she started to drive off.
Peace to you
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
It looks clearly justified to me. I don’t know what you’re looking at.