Asking for help again, please

Dee,

Great questions. I will try to post something when I get home from work. I am passionate about worship and I regularly study it (because I think so many people get it wrong).

Let me say, however, I am in total agreement with the quote you posted. I'll explain more later.

If you'd like, you can private message me with your e-mail address and I can send you what I've written on worship.

Blessings,

The Archangel

 

Willowdee, your pastor has it about right. The primary purpose of the worship sevice is worship. The presence of lost people is incidental.

If your pastor is preaching the gospel, he is not ignoring the needs of the lost in the service. He is giving them exactly what they need.

I suspect he is saying we have to lose the mindset that the purpose of inviting the unchurched is so they'll hear the gospel. He is saying, "you give them the gospel where they are."

He may also be reacting to the common practice in some of our modern churches to gear the service to the unchurched.

The reality is that the vast majority of the lost will not set foot in a church, so if we're waiting on them to attend so we can witness to them, we've got it wrong.

 

Tom, I agree.

I've told our folks that the real work of the church takes place outside the wall or the church when we tell people what Jesus has done for us. Yes, worship is vital! But real ministry to the lost takes place as we share Christ with others.

 

Have you asked your pastor what he meant? Basically, I would agree with what he said... but if he said it, then maybe he could shed more light on what he meant rather than a group of people who don't know him or the context in which he said it.

 

Not in any of our churches. We meet to worship the Lord but the message is always so that the crumbs fall from the table.

BBob,

 

Personally, my mission/ or evangelism doesn’t stop when I enter through the church doors. I find many individuals who need to hear the truth of God’s word from right inside the church building, and it makes no difference to me when sharing Christ what walls I stand between when I see that need…Don’t see God getting jealous while I postpone direct undivided ceremonial worship to care for the lost!

Although I would agree that most witnessing will generally occur outside the church building, I would never go that far to express evangelism to have a necessary direct separation apart from worship and would ponder whether this statement should be regarded as “dogmatic hogwash”, most probably to maintain and promote a hyper agenda, which frankly, I would happily disregard concerning any seeker having walked in that has needs.

 

In 100% agreement, Tom. :thumbs:

 

BB,

What are the crumbs?

 

Dee (Hey, that's my wife's nickname!) :thumbs:

Welcome and "peace be still." Your pastor is "on a mission." Personally, I feel that anyone who comes to our worship services is "seeking" God and this is where they should "find" Him! Not all of us have the gift of evangelism but we do have the ministry of "drawing" people by our behavioral witness, by our love, by our inclusion of them in our spiritual lives (church life, for instance).

Many, many pastors want to "shift the blame," so to speak. In a way, they are asking you to "empathize" with them that there are not more people coming to Christ under their ministry. Well, likely God didn't gift us or call us to be evangelists. And maybe our pastor's gift is teaching (as J Vernon McGee admitted of himself). Hang in there and do what you can!

Kudos to those who thing otherwise. But every Sunday AM service is a gospel opportunity and an invitation to receive Christ. Sorry, but worship is a 24/7/365 practice among believers. That's why scripture says not to mind those who criticize your observance of certain "holy days."

skypair

 

I believe quotes like your pastor's are a result of a negative reaction to the seeker-sensitive movement most represented by Willowcreek and Saddleback churches.

I do not see biblical support for the idea that evangelism only occurs outside the context of worship.

Like Benjamin, I would agree that evangelism occurs most effectively outside of the walls of the church, but I would not limit it in such a way.

 

The Lord's mercy and love for His creation and the message of His mercy.


Mat 15:22And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, [thou] Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

Mat 5:14Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Mat 5:15Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

Mat 5:16Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Why hide the light????
I am sure you know they are able to see you have something that they do not have, which many times causes them to seek and ye shall find.

BBob,

 

If we can discern that someone is in our worship service, truly seeking God, then we should reach out to him. And if we don't know for sure, the pastor can certainly relate the church's desire to reach out to anyone there who needs salvation.

 

I generally agree with this statement and can support it.

But having said that, if worship is true worship, people can be drawn to God in the worship and be saved. Why limit God and the movement of His Spirit?

 

I go along with Tom on this one

How did Jesus explain the order??

"Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and Him only shalt thou serve."

Do you see the order there??

Service to the Lord Jesus is a direct result of worship of the Lord Jesus!!

 

Since I been on BB, there have been several discussions like this and many speak as though on Sunday that only the members are present. It may be that way at most of your churches but it is not that way in the Old Regular Baptist. It is about half and half in all of our services, unless it is a business meeting. We invite all the unsaved we meet through the week to come to church Sunday. We see many sit with tears flowing from their eyes for different time amounts. Some a month or so, some a year or so but eventually, they move forward and give their hand, feeling that God has forgiven them. I seem to sense your services are not that way, that you get all your converts outside of the church. Am I misreading you all or what???

BBob, :jesus:

 

I agree whole-heartedly with your pastor. The Christian worship is geared toward meeting the dietary needs of sheep, not goats.