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Atonement

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by TCassidy, May 2, 2005.

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Atonement

  1. Jesus fully atoned for all my sins on the cross.

    14 vote(s)
    100.0%

  2. Jesus only made it possible for me to save myself.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
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  1. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Did Jesus die to fully atone for our sins without our help or to just make it possible for us to save ourselves?
     
    #1 TCassidy, May 2, 2005
  2. loving2daysyouth

    loving2daysyouth New Member

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    Why is there not an "All of the Above" option for those of us who won't be fulled into believing the tennants of Calvinism?
     
    #2 loving2daysyouth, May 2, 2005
  3. whetstone

    whetstone <img src =/11288.jpg>

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    the point of the poll is to reveal that you either believe Christ's work was finished on the cross- or that free will had to be added to it to make it effective.
     
    #3 whetstone, May 2, 2005
  4. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    Even an Arminian cannot agree with the second choice. It is phrased maliciously to denigrate non-Calvinists. Arminians do NOT believe that they can save themselves, and it is slanderous to assert otherwise.
     
    #4 StefanM, May 2, 2005
  5. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Where is the "stupid question" option in the survey??
     
    #5 BobRyan, May 2, 2005
  6. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Correct. I always have to laugh at those who claim that Christ only made salvation possible, but when cornered as to what moves that possibility to reality they always balk at saying it is something they, themselves, do. If Christ did not finish salvation on the cross, then somebody has to finish it, and that somebody is either the person assisting in the saving of himself or somebody else assisting in saving him. They can't have it both ways. :rolleyes:
     
    #6 TCassidy, May 2, 2005
  7. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    If Christ did not completely finish your salvation on the cross, what did you have to add to the work of Christ in order to be saved?
     
    #7 TCassidy, May 2, 2005
  8. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Not a stupid question, just a stupid answer. Either Christ saved you completely or you had to add something to His work. You can't have it both ways.
     
    #8 TCassidy, May 2, 2005
  9. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    Did he finish my salvation on the cross? Yes, God is not bound by time. However, I do not believe that he finished it by way of arbitrary (by this I mean unconditional) predestination, which is what the poll seems to insinuate.
     
    #9 StefanM, May 2, 2005
  10. Scott J

    Scott J Active Member
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    The poll doesn't insenuate that at all.

    ... and unconditional predestination does not equal arbitrary predestination.

    The fact that we cannot discern the reasons for God's divine choices does not mean that He has none.
     
    #10 Scott J, May 2, 2005
  11. Scott J

    Scott J Active Member
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    How is it slanderous? Non-calvinists assert that a good choice must be added to Christ's sacrifice. A good choice therefore merits salvation while a bad choice merits condemnation.

    The missing ingredient is not God's grace but rather man's goodness in making the right choice.

    The revised version of Eph 2:8 might read: For by a good choice are you saved through faith...
     
    #11 Scott J, May 2, 2005
  12. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    A choice that was enabled by God's grace?

    Arminians believe in an enabling grace; they just don't believe that God forces the choice.

    If left alone, I would have never come to Christ--Calvinists and Arminians agree on that one.
     
    #12 StefanM, May 2, 2005
  13. ILUVLIGHT

    ILUVLIGHT Guest

    cassidy;
    A drowning man who receives saving from the guy who threw him a line is not responsible for his own saving. Based only on the fact that he took hold of it. Trust is participation and acceptance of the line. You have misrepersented the Arminian's doctrine. They do not believe they can save them selves. Because the guy who threw out the life line still has to reel him in. This is why Christ called it fishing the fish can always swim the other way. They don't have to take the bate.
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
    Mike
     
    #13 ILUVLIGHT, May 2, 2005
  14. ILUVLIGHT

    ILUVLIGHT Guest

    Scott J;
    It's slanderous because it isn't true of there doctrine.
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
    Mike
     
    #14 ILUVLIGHT, May 2, 2005
  15. ILUVLIGHT

    ILUVLIGHT Guest

    cxassidy;
    It wasn't Salvation he finished. What he finished was paying for the sins of the whole world. The whole world would have to be saved according to your theory.Even though you argue over the meaning of words it still doesn't change the Bible to be more agreeable to Calvinism.

    May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
    Mike
     
    #15 ILUVLIGHT, May 2, 2005
  16. ILUVLIGHT

    ILUVLIGHT Guest

    ScottJ;
    It also doesn't mean that he only chose some either. Or that the word "world" is not including the entire population of every age.
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us all;
    Mike
     
    #16 ILUVLIGHT, May 2, 2005
  17. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Okay. If your salvation was not unconditional, are you saying it was conditional? If so, what condition did you meet that merited salvation?
     
    #17 TCassidy, May 2, 2005
  18. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    I don't believe God forces anyone to be saved either, and I don't know any Calvinists who believe that. God does not force us to come. His Love, Grace, and Mercy make us willing to come.
     
    #18 TCassidy, May 2, 2005
  19. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    So, in your opinion, salvation is based on your ability to grasp and hang on to the line?
    I haven't mentioined Arminian doctrine.
    If Christ did not do all that is required for salvation on the cross doesn't that imply that man must do something?
    But you still have to have the ability to hang on to the line?
    Actually there are two ways to catch fish. The first is with a hook and line, and when the hook is set the fish not only doesn't have to hang on, he can't get off the hook, so he can't swim the other way!

    The other way to fish is with a net, and again, the fish doesn't have to hang on, he is trapped in the net and can't swim the other way.
     
    #19 TCassidy, May 2, 2005
  20. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    No, that is your theology. My theology says He atoned only for the sins of the elect. And He completely finished that atonement. There is nothing I need to add. He said "it is finished" not "it is possible." He, and He alone, fully and completely accomplished my redemption on the cross. My salvation is all of Him and none of me. [​IMG]
     
    #20 TCassidy, May 2, 2005
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