{ Authority} whome should it be Pastor or

I personally think the pastor and deacons should be leaders, but be servants of the congragation at the sametime. If all are in accord with the Lord there won't be an authority problem.

 

The church that Jesus established is to be a mix of elder/congregation rule. The elders are to govern in most areas (voting for everything is not biblical). However, some areas involve the decision of the entire congregation. Church discipline is one.

If a church has only one elder, then other mature men need to be around for decision making.

Unfortunately, Jack Hyles ruined alot of what is not called fundamentalism with his "pastor as king" model.

 

I agree with Kate!

As far as Hyles Anderson College...You can't knock the number of Godly missionaries, preachers and preacher's wives they have turned out! Not to mention the vast number of souls saved at First Baptist Church of Hammond!

Blessings,
Sue

 

The congregation should have the final say (humanly speaking) in ALL matters. A plurality of elders will have whatever authority and decision making powers given to them for the day to day running of the organization, with the understanding that they answer to the congregation. If there are written rules and by-laws then these should be followed or changed and not just ignored. Pastors are not CEOs, they are servants (skilled in the word and spiritual matters). Deacons are servants (janitors, busboys, groundskeepers, etc.) not authority figures.

 

Wrong. God did not set up the church with the least godly(congregation) leading the more godly...he has elders that are to meet specific requirements to lead and make spiritual decisions for the group of believers. He is to be spiritually mature and a godly man. Now there are times the whole congregation should know about things and get feed back,etc. The leaders will care about the people.... But,the final decision is to be for the elders. Deacons are servants and do the task that the elders do not have time for.

I'm for a plurality of leaders/elders that lead biblically and the church body submits to their authority. The men HAVE to meet the qualifications,if they don't they should not be leading a church. This plurality can be paid or non compenstated.

 

Perhaps God has a plan?

1 Timothy 3:
1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Hebrew 13:
17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

 

Why do you assume the congregation is less godly than the pastor? What is the pastor doing if he is not leading the congregation to be more godly? And what is the point of the NT Scriptures that teach the church to be godly? If a church is not godly, then perhaps something other than the way the church is governed is the problem.

The NT is a elder (pastor) led, congregationally governed body.

 

Who do I believe should be in charge in the church? The Pastor (senior) is accountable to God for shepherding the congregation. A good pastor has lots of help with making things work smoothly in adherance to the Word of God.

Sure the deacons have thier responsibilities, most of which are detailed in the Bible...like taking care of the widows.

We should all do something in service for God.

My church has a senior pastor, and many associate pastors in charge of different things, and also deacons and staff, and many volunteers. We all work together.

My church web site

In Christ,
Wisdom Seeker

 

How do you determine that the pastor is the most godly person in the church? I think that is unbiblical.

 

A church should have a group of elders/pastors with one being the teaching pastor (that gets double honor). These lads make policy for the church and oversee spiritual things.

Deacons care for widows and handle other things, but are not involved in the work of the elders.

The congregation does the work of the ministry as they are being trained by the elders.

Elders appoint elders and the congregation appoints deacons.

Read Acts and 1 and 2 Timothy and Titus and Eph 4 to find these concepts.

 

The pastor is in charge as long as he stays in line with the Book. God put him there to teach and lead you, He put you there to follow.

 

I might misinterpret this, but it sounds like the kind of "pastor as king" idea that Jack Hyles popularized. If you notice throughout the N.T., you see elders (plural) that run the church.

Let me ask you something, if the singular pastor is not in line with Scripture, who challenges him? Could you imagine if someone ever questioned Jack?

I suppose they would be framed like his son.

[ March 23, 2003, 08:05 PM: Message edited by: Preach the Word ]

 

I might misinterpret this, but it sounds like the kind of "pastor as king" idea that Jack Hyles popularized. If you notice throughout the N.T., you see elders (plural) that run the church.

Let me ask you something, if the singular pastor is not in line with Scripture, who challenges him? Could you imagine if someone ever questions Jack?

I suppose they would be framed like his son. </font>[/QUOTE]No Brother, Not as a king,
2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

As a leader not God

 

Some Hyles boys like to use "Don't go up against God's man!" or "Touch not my annointed!" when you question them. As to Jack, let the dead lie in peace.

 

TOugh Question....As one who just left a Church that was and is a complete and total dictatorship as i have seen in an increasing amount of IFB's around the country, I can offer a little insight on how to know when the wrong person or persons are in charge...(1) When you are told "You Don't need scripture, I'm your pastor and I'm Telling you...." (2) When you are quoted the scripture in Hebrews anytime that there is a question (3) When you are told "If you just do as your pastor tells you, you will be right with God "( for he looks out for your soul) (4) When you are told, "You better not let me catch you having a bible study in your home without me present" by the pastor... Ok these are just a few ways to tell when the wrong man is in charge....I believe that the new testament is very clear in the role of elders in the NT church but I also believe that many, many, many Pastors and IFB's have bypassed that way of reasoning....

 

WHAT! I find that so hard to believe.

 

JN1633, Are you sure you weren't at our church? You just described our last Pastor to a T. Nobody left though, except him. He got mad when we questioned him about some of his statements, so he resigned.

To the question, I believe the Pastor should be in charge of the pulpit and what is preached. I believe the business of the church should be left to the members, for the most part. Of course, our church is not as big as most, so it is very easy for all of us to convene and vote in conference.

For those who believe the Pastor/Elders should have absolute control, how do you explain the church's right to call other Pastors or remove the current one? The church has control over who is her Pastor, therefore, whether you want to believe it or not, they have the final control.

 

Amen!