Acts 2:37-39. That IS, Christian baptism. Full stop! Nothing of water, or of sprinkling or of immersion or whatever. By this baptism SPOKEN, the believers were baptised with the baptism of Jesus Christ. It is baptism with the Word, through the Word, in the Word and Name of Jesus Christ, God the Father, and the Holy Spirit. It is baptism, in one's own language; it is the baptism of having come to the knowlededge, understanding and assimilation of and within God and His Salvation through faith that cometh by hearing.
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Baptism spoken upon the believers
- Thread starter Gerhard Ebersoehn
- Start date
trustitl said:
GE:
I have told you before.
I'll say again, it was the Apostolic age and commission - the prerogative of the Apostles and the Pentecost-missionaries to baptise with water; nobody else's. In fact, John the baptist already PROPHESIED baptism with water would end, as though his baptising with water would be the last, and Jesus would baptise with Fire and Spirit, that is, through the regeneration of the forgiveness of sins and the inplanting of the New Life through his Mighty Spirit. Was John the baptist a FALSE prophet? None bigger was there, declared Christ of him. You can take his word for true, water baptism would end, and ended it did with the Beginnings of the Gospel.
And notice, it was the Ethiopian who asked for baptism with water, water baptism - I may be wrong - exactly for the reason the one who baptised him was not himself of the number of the Apostles, though he most probably was a Pentecost-missionary.
If the FULLNESS of the Gospel is received and served by the WORD through Faith, what do we need water-baptism for?
Darron Steele
New Member
Because Jesus Christ said to do it: Matthew 28:19-20 “Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations|. Baptize them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Teach them to obey everything that I have taught you,| and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age” (NASB|NCV|NASB).
HE SAID TO; THAT OUGHT TO BE ENOUGH FOR US TO JUST DO IT!
I am not the type of person who would dare say `Well, I do not think we should do as Jesus Christ said, because I do not think we need to' -- and then have the audacity to claim that I consider Him Lord.
The LORD JESUS CHRIST SAID TO DO IT; THAT OUGHT TO MORE THAN SUFFICE!
HE SAID TO; THAT OUGHT TO BE ENOUGH FOR US TO JUST DO IT!
I am not the type of person who would dare say `Well, I do not think we should do as Jesus Christ said, because I do not think we need to' -- and then have the audacity to claim that I consider Him Lord.
The LORD JESUS CHRIST SAID TO DO IT; THAT OUGHT TO MORE THAN SUFFICE!
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Darron Steele
New Member
Then what do you propose to immerse someone into? The Greek transliterated "baptize/baptism" means to immerse.trustitl said:
The only examples of mortals baptizing mortals and Christians baptizing Christians is in water. We see example after example -- and no other practice.
You are right that I am doing a "pre-suppose": I pre-suppose that Christians should obey what Jesus Christ said and also that God's written Word should be followed -- with no `but I think' attached.
It looks like we are getting way, way, way into non-Bible opinions -- and far, far, far away from the Lord's stated and written Word.
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Trustiti:
"A baptism does not require water."
GE:
Correct! Mt28 GIVES the 'medium'; it GIVES the commissioned; it GIVES the 'mode': "Go!" who? Go ye the apostles and first disciples under the Voice of the Word Himself. "Go ye and baptise ... IN THE NAME". Go ye and baptise in the Name ... HOW? "Teaching (the baptised)" all things". "All things" Who taught? ...."All things I - Jesus - taught"; taught whom? "Taught YOU" those present listening to Jesus in Person.
WHERE do WE come from? I beg your pardon! The other day I told one of those pretenders in the face: You are no apostle! I was asked to please leave their premises.
"A baptism does not require water."
GE:
Correct! Mt28 GIVES the 'medium'; it GIVES the commissioned; it GIVES the 'mode': "Go!" who? Go ye the apostles and first disciples under the Voice of the Word Himself. "Go ye and baptise ... IN THE NAME". Go ye and baptise in the Name ... HOW? "Teaching (the baptised)" all things". "All things" Who taught? ...."All things I - Jesus - taught"; taught whom? "Taught YOU" those present listening to Jesus in Person.
WHERE do WE come from? I beg your pardon! The other day I told one of those pretenders in the face: You are no apostle! I was asked to please leave their premises.
Darron Steele:
"The only examples of mortals baptizing mortals and Christians baptizing Christians is in water."
GE:
Not so!
Acts 2 the most important 'example' is self-explanatory: Baptism happened by and as the appointed apostle SPOKE; it virtually was by Command: "Repent ye and BE baptised", That is God's way of DOING: God SPEAKS and "IT IS". And so we can go through the list of baptisings in the New Testament.
You tell me how many cases you find where water is at all mentioned (not implied as you claim it each time); I shall tell you how many instances water is not mentioned or implied, but God's Power or Spirit is the mentioned and implied DIRECT 'medium' of baptism.
You show me how many cases there are in the NT of baptism that does NOT save; and I shall show you the none existing cases baptism in the NT did not ultimately save.
"The only examples of mortals baptizing mortals and Christians baptizing Christians is in water."
GE:
Not so!
Acts 2 the most important 'example' is self-explanatory: Baptism happened by and as the appointed apostle SPOKE; it virtually was by Command: "Repent ye and BE baptised", That is God's way of DOING: God SPEAKS and "IT IS". And so we can go through the list of baptisings in the New Testament.
You tell me how many cases you find where water is at all mentioned (not implied as you claim it each time); I shall tell you how many instances water is not mentioned or implied, but God's Power or Spirit is the mentioned and implied DIRECT 'medium' of baptism.
You show me how many cases there are in the NT of baptism that does NOT save; and I shall show you the none existing cases baptism in the NT did not ultimately save.
Darron Steele:
"The only examples of mortals baptizing mortals and Christians baptizing Christians is in water."
GE:
On the other hand; you are quite right, "The only examples of mortals baptizing mortals and Christians baptizing Christians is in water" (which you could kindly list us), whereas every and all examples of the Power and Spirit of God baptizing mortals are examples of the Power and Spirit of God baptizing Christians.
"The only examples of mortals baptizing mortals and Christians baptizing Christians is in water."
GE:
On the other hand; you are quite right, "The only examples of mortals baptizing mortals and Christians baptizing Christians is in water" (which you could kindly list us), whereas every and all examples of the Power and Spirit of God baptizing mortals are examples of the Power and Spirit of God baptizing Christians.
Darron Steele
New Member
The baptism that God gives in the Holy Spirit does not nullify what Jesus Christ said:Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
Matthew 28:19-20 “Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations|. Baptize them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Teach them to obey everything that I have taught you,| and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age” (NASB|NCV|NASB).
Christians are to baptize Christians. That is what Jesus Christ ordained, and throughout the New Testament, from Acts onward, Christians obeyed. That is what Christians are supposed to do: follow what Jesus Christ taught us to do.
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"The baptism that God gives in the Holy Spirit does - 'not', I believe you wanted to say - nullify what Jesus Christ said:"
You just go on as if I haven't posted you the challenge to your easy claims. I repeat them; you answer them first.
A 'Christian' - to me - any other than the apostles, is a disciple. I ask you, were you there and did Jesus command you in that upper room? Do you claim to be an apostle? Well, if you do, you are an imposter, and there's no more to be argued.
A 'Christian' - to me - any other than the apostles, is a disciple. I ask you, were you there and did Jesus command you in that upper room? Do you claim to be an apostle? Well, if you do, you are an imposter, and there's no more to be argued.
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Do you, while you claim apostleship and apostolic prerogative to baptise, do you also claim the apostolic prerogatives of tongues and healing? If you do, to me it will be but further confirmation of your pretext.
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Darron Steele
New Member
I do not claim apostleship.Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
As a Christian, I assert that Jesus Christ should be obeyed -- period.
Matthew 28:19-20 “Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations|. Baptize them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Teach them to obey everything that I have taught you,| and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age” (NASB|NCV|NASB).
Confront a man on his good works, and play Tchaikovsky's First on his nervous system.
Darron Steele said:
Here are 6 scriptural options:
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into 1 Jesus Christ were baptized into his 2 death?
And were all baptized unto 3 Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
he shall baptize you with the 4 Holy Ghost, and with 5 fire
And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the 6 water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
I therefore propose we baptize into Christ, his death, and the holy ghost.
In speaking of baptism, Jesus was baptized in water. The apostles baptized in water. Paul speaks of being washed with the waters of baptism. Baptism is a symbol of being buried (going under the water) and being raised in the newness of new life.
I'll stick with Jesus' words, thank you very much. I think He knows more about this.
I'll stick with Jesus' words, thank you very much. I think He knows more about this.
And these are Jesus' words:
"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved"
This is not water baptism.
Your welcome very much. :thumbs:
I agree with the symbolism thing. I think it is just like foot washing being symbolic of being servants. Neither are required nor are you disobedient if you don't do the symbolic acts.
"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved"
This is not water baptism.
Your welcome very much. :thumbs:
I agree with the symbolism thing. I think it is just like foot washing being symbolic of being servants. Neither are required nor are you disobedient if you don't do the symbolic acts.
