Featured Baptism

I do not.

But I do not believe that "obedience" is the reason for being baptized.

 

Baptism is a sign of the thing signified. It symbolizes the believer's death to sin, being raised to life, and being identified with Christ. It is a command to be obeyed by every believer (Matthew 28:19-20; Acts 2:38; 16:33; Acts 22:16; Romans 6:3-5; Colossians 2:12).

 

There's a reason we call baptism an ordinance instead of a sacrament. It is, that it's not a sacrament. Sacraments by definition carry with them some salvific efficacy.

 

Water baptism does not save anyone!

 

Baptism does not save anyone, but sprinkling would certainly save on the water bill.

 

I agree with other posters that there are no Baptists who believe baptism is even an instrumental means of salvation like you might find among some Stone-Campbell believers.

However, I must disagree with Tom Butler because there are some Baptists, myself included, who are comfortable with calling baptism a sacrament as a means of grace, but certainly not a means of salvific grace. Moreover, several Baptists from a few centuries ago defended their view of believer baptism with sacramental concepts and sometimes with sacramental terminology. Sacraments do not by definition entail means of salvific grace for all Christian traditions (e.g. Reformed and Baptist would be two clear exceptions).

For more on a sacramental, as opposed to ordinance-only meaning, of believer baptism, see my book "Waters of Promise: Finding Meaning in Believer Baptism" (Eugene, OR: Pickwick, 2012). I write more about the purpose of the book here: http://blog.herreidbaptist.com/2012/10/my-book-waters-of-promise-is-now.html

 

I don't think we're very far apart on the question. I shy away from using such terms as "sacrament" and "means of grace" because they are associated with the RCC. It seems somewhat contradictory (and confusing) to use those terms, then qualify them by saying they are not salvific.

That said, I do think we modern Baptists should attach more significance to baptism than just a "dunking." It is a serious and sacred act, by which we identify with the Lord Christ and his claim on our life and our soul.

 

Then why did Christ need baptism?
MB

 

Then even you must admit that it is more than just a dunking. For myself Baptism is a profession of faith and a semblance of the death, burial, and resurrection, with Christ.
MB

 

I couldn't have said it better. We are agreed.

 

Here's why Jesus needed to be baptized:

Jesus' baptism was a sign to John that the prophesied Messiah to come, was here.

 

True but not everyone seems to know this.
MB

 

IMHO It was a teaching aid of prophesy of how the righteousness of God is fulfilled.

That is through death of the Son and being made alive again, receiving the Holy Spirit, and declared to be the Son.

The washing of water of the word.

A word of prophesy by the Prophet.

 

That's odd, I was just thinking of you and your expressions on your views regarding this subject yesterday while reading another thread and again when beginning to read this one. Think I'll have to check that book out...

 

Hi Tom,

I understand what you mean, although I of course wouldn't say my approach is contradictory. But you have a point about it being confusing when some people have a narrow view of what "sacrament" means.

Schreiner and Wright avoid the term "sacrament" for that very reason in the book they edited on believer baptism. In my introductory chapter I defend the use of the term, noting that the concept of having a robust meaning for believer baptism is what matters more than the terminology we use to describe it. For a different approach than mine Christopher Moody opts to add to the meaning of ordinance, whereas I opt to qualify the meaning of sacrament.

Hi Benjamin,
I remember that thread from a while back. I think you would enjoy the book. Please pass along any comments you have about it if you do read it.

 

Tom, that is a purely subjective statement. The word sacrament is the English translation of the Latin sacramentum, which in turn is the Latin translation of the Greek word μυστήριον (musterion), or mystery. Donald McKim defines sacrament as, "An outward sign instituted by God to convey an inward or spiritual grace" (Dictionary of Theological Terms, 1996, WJK Press). Besides being used by Roman Catholics, Presbyterians of the 17th Century also used the word in the Westminster Confession of Faith. The Presbyterians did not believe that the sacraments of baptism and the Lord's Supper conveyed grace in themselves, but rather conveyed "inward or spiritual grace" already possessed by the believer. 17th Century Baptists did not differ from Presbyterians on that issue, but they separated over the use of sacrament. Sacrament was too closely identified with Roman Catholicism, so ordinance entered the vernacular.

 

Agree with this