Baptist invented the trinity

[evangelist6589]

My meeting with the Pentecostal minister turned out well and this time I was well prepared. He started it off by quoting a verse from Rev 22 about adding to the word of God as a word of condemnation to the English Standard Version Bible that I used. However as he clearly saw as we looked up many verses the ESV retains all the theology of the KJV and is an accurate translation, so he backed down that argument.

Explained the various heresies of the trinity over time including modalism. The pastor was very stumped with both Gen 1:26 and Mt 3:13-17 and had no explanation. He said he did not know, but insisted that Baptist invented the doctrine of the trinity. I told him that plenty of churches teach the trinity including Pentecostals, just not OneNess Pentecostals. When we came to Matt 28:18-20 he just insisted that because the word "names" is not mentioned as the text says "name" this means that Jesus got it wrong, or translators of the Bible got it wrong with this verse and added the trinity when it should not have been there in Matt 28:18-20.

This character was interesting as he also claims to reject reading theology books and seemed very uneducated, probably against going to seminary as well. I asked him since he rejected theology books, why would anyone listen to any of his sermons, but he gave no answer.

I can't say for sure if this pastor is not saved, but rejecting the trinity is not good and he continued to be argue and air his opinions on modalism and about God is one just the son and Spirit are functions and not persons. On top of that also said he accepts the Serpents Seeds Doctrine which is pure heresy.

Anyone ever reasoned with a OneNess Pentecostal? I believe this pastor to have another gospel and to be deceived.

 

[Jerome]

BB member William Price's testimony may interest you:

When I departed Oneness Pentecostalism, I searched for a good reformed Baptist fellowship. In a city the size of Houston, I am traveling 25 miles one way to a church that preaches expositionally and whose hermeneutics are biblical.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

1. You are on pretty firm ground if you do say he's not save.
2. He does. Baptist Board considers Oneness Pentecostals to be heretics and are not allowed membership.

SNIP
I can't say for sure if this pastor is not saved,
SNIP
I believe this pastor to have another gospel and to be deceived.

 

[The Biblicist]

My meeting with the Pentecostal minister turned out well and this time I was well prepared. He started it off by quoting a verse from Rev 22 about adding to the word of God as a word of condemnation to the English Standard Version Bible that I used. However as he clearly saw as we looked up many verses the ESV retains all the theology of the KJV and is an accurate translation, so he backed down that argument.

Explained the various heresies of the trinity over time including modalism. The pastor was very stumped with both Gen 1:26 and Mt 3:13-17 and had no explanation. He said he did not know, but insisted that Baptist invented the doctrine of the trinity. I told him that plenty of churches teach the trinity including Pentecostals, just not OneNess Pentecostals. When we came to Matt 28:18-20 he just insisted that because the word "names" is not mentioned as the text says "name" this means that Jesus got it wrong, or translators of the Bible got it wrong with this verse and added the trinity when it should not have been there in Matt 28:18-20.

This character was interesting as he also claims to reject reading theology books and seemed very uneducated, probably against going to seminary as well. I asked him since he rejected theology books, why would anyone listen to any of his sermons, but he gave no answer.

I can't say for sure if this pastor is not saved, but rejecting the trinity is not good and he continued to be argue and air his opinions on modalism and about God is one just the son and Spirit are functions and not persons. On top of that also said he accepts the Serpents Seeds Doctrine which is pure heresy.

Anyone ever reasoned with a OneNess Pentecostal? I believe this pastor to have another gospel and to be deceived.

Yes, I have dealt with them many times. One approach to show their error is

Joh 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
Joh 5:32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.
Joh 5:33 Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.
Joh 5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
Joh 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

The Mosaic law required two or three witnesses to affirm something in a court of law. Jesus claims that if he bears witness for himself, then his witness is not true. He provides two other witnesses - (1) John and (2) My Father.

If he was the Father than he would be bearing witness of himself. Therefore, he no more the Father as he is John. This shows distinction between the Son and the Father as TWO different witnesses.

Moreover, John 10:30 and the words "I and my Father are one" the term "one" is neuter rather than masculine and refers to "one in nature" instead of one in person.

Likewise, in John 14 Jesus did not say "I am the Father" but he said, that if you have seen him you have seen the Father, in the sense that the purpose of the incarnation was to reveal what God would be like if you could see him as a man (Jn. 1:14,18).

 

[preachinjesus]

I've dealt with Oneness Pentecostals myself. The passionate ones are a real bother. What makes them worse is that they won't hear from either reason or history.

I can build an entire case for an orthodox Trinitarian theology (which is biblical) and they just sit there and ignore it. Just crazy.

They are usually not worth my time. I will always make time for a reasonable atheist, agnostic, and even those from other religions. But these vile Christian impersonators merit little time from my pen or expense of my mind.

 

[jonathan.borland]

. . . merit little time from my pen or expense of my mind.

I agree, and I like your expression.

 

[evangelist6589]

BB member William Price's testimony may interest you:

Thanks appreciate it.

 

[evangelist6589]

1. You are on pretty firm ground if you do say he's not save.
2. He does. Baptist Board considers Oneness Pentecostals to be heretics and are not allowed membership.

Its sad how dedicated he was to his modalism and the Serpents seed heresy doctrine. I can only try to persuade but its only God that can grant faith and repentance to His elect.

 

[evangelist6589]

Well thought out. I am emailing him this information and asking for a response. I think he was clearly floored on the Trinity doctrine and having no explanation for Gen 1:26, and the Baptism of Jesus but his response was "we just do not know the interpretation for its a mystery."

Do you have a response to the Serpents seed doctrine?

Yes, I have dealt with them many times. One approach to show their error is

Joh 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
Joh 5:32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.
Joh 5:33 Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.
Joh 5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
Joh 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

The Mosaic law required two or three witnesses to affirm something in a court of law. Jesus claims that if he bears witness for himself, then his witness is not true. He provides two other witnesses - (1) John and (2) My Father.

If he was the Father than he would be bearing witness of himself. Therefore, he no more the Father as he is John. This shows distinction between the Son and the Father as TWO different witnesses.

Moreover, John 10:30 and the words "I and my Father are one" the term "one" is neuter rather than masculine and refers to "one in nature" instead of one in person.

Likewise, in John 14 Jesus did not say "I am the Father" but he said, that if you have seen him you have seen the Father, in the sense that the purpose of the incarnation was to reveal what God would be like if you could see him as a man (Jn. 1:14,18).

 

[evangelist6589]

I've dealt with Oneness Pentecostals myself. The passionate ones are a real bother. What makes them worse is that they won't hear from either reason or history.

I can build an entire case for an orthodox Trinitarian theology (which is biblical) and they just sit there and ignore it. Just crazy.

They are usually not worth my time. I will always make time for a reasonable atheist, agnostic, and even those from other religions. But these vile Christian impersonators merit little time from my pen or expense of my mind.

This is exactly the response I got yesterday. I will try another meeting and if that fails dust off my feet and leave.

How can I find atheists/agnostics to reason with as I know of none and am not in school? I would like to debate with them as well.

 

[Marooncat79]

I have a tone of experience at this. You have to engage him on a personal level for a while and meet him where he is.

Do NOT just dwell on the Trinity, but Biblical theology in general.

One of the Books that helps me help them is 52 Words every Christians should know by Kendell Easley. It discusses issues/words like marriage, covenant, justification, sanctification, Church, etc., and gives great definitions for them. It is very straight forward and so simple that it is truly profound. It is very small -about 70-80 pages IIRC, so it is very nonthreatening

Hit me up and I think that I may have a copy to send you!

You got my digits!!

Bill

Romans 5:1

 

[evangelist6589]

I have a tone of experience at this. You have to engage him on a personal level for a while and meet him where he is.



Do NOT just dwell on the Trinity, but Biblical theology in general.



One of the Books that helps me help them is 52 Words every Christians should know by Kendell Easley. It discusses issues/words like marriage, covenant, justification, sanctification, Church, etc., and gives great definitions for them. It is very straight forward and so simple that it is truly profound. It is very small -about 70-80 pages IIRC, so it is very nonthreatening



Hit me up and I think that I may have a copy to send you!



You got my digits!!



Bill



Romans 5:1

Sent you a PM. Thank you so much Bill!

 

[Yeshua1]

My meeting with the Pentecostal minister turned out well and this time I was well prepared. He started it off by quoting a verse from Rev 22 about adding to the word of God as a word of condemnation to the English Standard Version Bible that I used. However as he clearly saw as we looked up many verses the ESV retains all the theology of the KJV and is an accurate translation, so he backed down that argument.

Explained the various heresies of the trinity over time including modalism. The pastor was very stumped with both Gen 1:26 and Mt 3:13-17 and had no explanation. He said he did not know, but insisted that Baptist invented the doctrine of the trinity. I told him that plenty of churches teach the trinity including Pentecostals, just not OneNess Pentecostals. When we came to Matt 28:18-20 he just insisted that because the word "names" is not mentioned as the text says "name" this means that Jesus got it wrong, or translators of the Bible got it wrong with this verse and added the trinity when it should not have been there in Matt 28:18-20.

This character was interesting as he also claims to reject reading theology books and seemed very uneducated, probably against going to seminary as well. I asked him since he rejected theology books, why would anyone listen to any of his sermons, but he gave no answer.

I can't say for sure if this pastor is not saved, but rejecting the trinity is not good and he continued to be argue and air his opinions on modalism and about God is one just the son and Spirit are functions and not persons. On top of that also said he accepts the Serpents Seeds Doctrine which is pure heresy.

Anyone ever reasoned with a OneNess Pentecostal? I believe this pastor to have another gospel and to be deceived.

I was an Elder in the assemblies of God for 10 yeras, and can tell you that this group came out of the AOG, back in believe 1918, and that was due to a pastor having a "revelation from God" at a camp meeting that trinity came from the devil...

They teach another gospel, as one must deny the trinity, must speak in other tongues, and must be baptised into JUST same of jesus to be really saved!

Ask Him who the father is, as jesus at end of revelation turns over everything back to his father!