Baptist Salvation is Salvation by works

[Tom Butler]

It appears that most of the folks involved in this discussion hold to salvation by grace through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. So how about if we develop our personal testimony to reflect that.

As an exercise, would anybody like to give their testimony without once using the word "I?" That will eliminate "I got saved," "I accepted Christ as my Savior," "I made a decision for Christ," "I made Jesus my Lord," and the like.

Any takers?

 

[Chemnitz]

Nearly thirty years ago when I was a wee one, God made a promise through water and word to me which he has kept to this day and will continue to keep. He renews his promise to me everyday building up a trust with in me that is hard to shake.

Yes, Webdog, I am serious. Baptist and evangelicals talk big about faith but when the rubber hits the road it's all about Me. It appears some at least want to hold on to their precious missconceptions so badly they want to reinterpret Eph 2:8.

To add more into the list I would venture 80 if not 90% of praise songs are about what I am going to do for God rather than what God did for me. And I have to ask what good is it to sing I am going to praise you but never say why you are praising?

 

[J. Jump]

This is foolishness for what I believe is how I live my life and how I live my life is where I will spend eternity so if you don't mind don't tell me what I believe don't matter for if it don't make no sense at all then no need to discuss it.

Brother Bob you can consider it foolishness if you want, but if your beliefs or if my beliefs or if anyone's beliefs don't match what the Bible says then it doesn't matter what we believe.

You say how I live my life is where I will spend eternity - that is works based salvation plain and simple and that is Biblical error. Your eternal salvation has NOTHING to do with how your live your life. The Bible CLEARLY teaches against that statement. For it is by GRACE you have been saved through FAITH - the way you live your life NEVER comes into play regarding eternal salvation.

What you believe makes perfect sense it's just wrong. And I what I would like to know is why are Jesus' works not enough for you, becuase that's all the Bible requires is faith in His shed blood and death on the cross.

So you may or may not do good works after Salvation?

That's is what the Bible says not only in Ephesians 2, but several other places as well.

I guess you don't believe you will know a tree by the fruit it bears.

You have guessed wrong. I absolutely believe in that passage. But that passage as has been explained before is dealing with false prophets not Christians in general.

Salvation is a personal matter between and individual and God. Only God truly knows who is and who is not saved by grace through faith. Our knowledge about someone's salvation is speculation at best.

Again, Eph 2 is talking about many things and they all concern Salvation. It is talking about the Middle wall of partition, talking about the works of the Law, Circumcision and where Jesus brought Salvation to the Gentiles as a free gift.

Brother Bob you contradict yourself. How can you say that your eternal salvation depends upon how your live your life and in the same post say that eternal salvation is a free gift. It's either by works or it's a gift? You can't have it both ways.

No one has to work for a gift. If you work to get something then it is a payment not a gift. It's still beyond me why that is so difficult to grasp for some folks.

I think you have read trying to make something out of the Scriptures that is not there. I hear preachers saying in their sermons that almost everything in the OT represented Christ. They go too far and for one lose the congregation and for two it is not so.

Wow...it's amazing that you are a preacher of 30-plus years and would make that statement. Jesus clearly says that the OT was written about Him. That's what He told the Pharisees when He said had ye believed Moses you would believe me, because he wrote of Me.

That's what He told the two disciples on the road to Emmaus. Starting with Moses and all the prophets He explained who He was because it all points to Him.

I can just imagine you preaching to a congregation that the soul will be saved but that is not eternal Salvation. All the churches I know and not just what I belong to but all of them would show you the door and tell you not to come back.

I suspect you are absolutely right. And that is terribly unfortunate, but that is the same thing that happened to Christ and the apostles. When you preach the truth people don't want to hear it, especially in this generation of the Laodicean church which is lukewarm and just wants to have their ears tickled instead of feeding on the meat of the Word and the strong meat of the Word.

 

[J. Jump]

I have to believe that IN A SENSE both passages are correct and are in agreement.

You are exactly right. They are both correct and they are both in agreement, but the only way they can be in agreement is if they aren't talking about the same thing. If they are both talking about eternal salvation then there is clearly a contradiction in the Bible, and that is an impossibility.

Our works are not meritorious, and our works have not devised the plan of salvation.

It doesn't matter if you try to talk yourself out of works being meritorious or not. The only thing that matters is what the Bible says. And the Bible says that anything other than faith in the substitutionary death and shed blood of Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God is not a part of eternal salvation.

Your faith is ONLY in His works done on your behalf.

If you do ANYTHING in regard to eternal salvation then it is no longer grace and it is no longer a free gift, but it is wages for services rendered. Romans 5 I believe is where Paul makes that quite clear.

Just the same, God has commanded men to repent and to exercise faith in Him, which both are, at their roots, acts of the will , and as such are ‘works’ ‘in a sense.’

Repenting is a work that's what it is not required for eternal salvation, however faith is not a work.

One thing is for certain. Faith without works is dead, and dead faith has no power to save.

That is absolutely correct, but the question is power to save from what? You and most of Christendom want to say that it is power to save from eternal damnation, but that is not what the Bible says. Faith without works is dead and has no power to save one's soul from the second death, which is millenial in scope for believers.

If you believe in the coming kingdom and you believe that you can have a part in ruling and reigning with Christ, but you don't do the works that James calls for and other NT books call for then your faith is dead and useless. But eternity is not what is hanging in the balance.

 

[Brother Bob]

That is absolutely correct, but the question is power to save from what? You and most of Christendom want to say that it is power to save from eternal damnation, but that is not what the Bible says. Faith without works is dead and has no power to save one's soul from the second death, which is millenial in scope for believers.

How can you debate with someone who believes that the saving of the soul is not eternal life. Does anyone else on here believe that?

Wow...it's amazing that you are a preacher of 30-plus years and would make that statement. Jesus clearly says that the OT was written about Him. That's what He told the Pharisees when He said had ye believed Moses you would believe me, because he wrote of Me.

You would not agree with me regardless. Look at all the posts and see if you agreed one time. I speak that some go too far as everything representing Christ and you say I am wrong.

Brother Bob you contradict yourself. How can you say that your eternal salvation depends upon how your live your life and in the same post say that eternal salvation is a free gift. It's either by works or it's a gift? You can't have it both ways.

Offer your body a living sacrifice which is your reasonable service. A true Christian is nothing like what you compare him to. A true Christian's steps are ordered of the Lord and he just don't walk the way he did when he was lost.

You call believing works and if they are works then I am saying works for except you believe you shall die in your sins. He said to preach the Gospel to every creature. He said they shall all know me from the least unto the greatest. According to you they can't hear Him.

You and I are just too far apart to ever agree. Are you sure you are a Baptist or are you just saying that to post on the Baptist forum? I never in my life heard a Baptist say such things as you do. The soul is saved but not eternal life, how many Salvations do you believe in. I heard a "world wide church of God preacher say one there was around 7 resurrections". You sound more like him than a Baptist.

 

[J. Jump]

Offer your body a living sacrifice which is your reasonable service.

Bob you are absolutely right again. That is what we are SUPPOSED to do, but that doesn't mean we WILL do that 100% of the time. Some Christians do it for a while and then they decide the cost of discipleship is too much and then return to letting the flesh rule their lives instead of the spirit.

That's not what I say. That is what the Bible says.

You call believing works

Now don't go putting words into my mouth. I have never said that believing is a work. Faith/Believing is not a work. It can't be or it violates Ephesians 2:8-9 which says that eternal salvation is by faith not of works and it's by the grace of God which is a free gift to mankind if he will have faith.

According to you they can't hear Him.

What are you talking about Bob. You are going the way of BobRyan and accusing me of something that I never said.

You and I are just too far apart to ever agree.

If folks would let the Bible say what the Bible says instead of inserting their own interpretation of it, then this statement wouldn't be true.

 

[Brother Bob]

If folks would let the Bible say what the Bible says instead of inserting their own interpretation of it, then this statement wouldn't be true.

For once we agree that if folks would let the Bible say what the Bible says.


I agree with most of what Bob Ryan posts. We are much closer in beliefs than you and I.

 

[J. Jump]

For once we agree.

Too bad it is only an agreement in theory instead of practice

 

[webdog]

As an exercise, would anybody like to give their testimony without once using the word "I?" That will eliminate "I got saved," "I accepted Christ as my Savior," "I made a decision for Christ," "I made Jesus my Lord," and the like.

Let me get this straight...you want a PERSONAL testimony without using "I"? Come on! This is like me asking you how a pizza is made without you being able to say sauce, crust or cheese!

 

[FriendofSpurgeon]

Wow! The Lutheran has indeed stirred the pot. Now, Baptists are agreeing with SDAs instead of each other.

It seems to an issue of emphasis, doesn't it? One group emphasizes grace. The other group, faith.

Don't both agree that both are necessary?

PS - Thanks Chemnitz. It's been a fun read.