Bare with me!

[riverm]

Originally posted by buckster75:
I don't know of these Early Church fathers you speak of.

Neither did I until I researched the history of the Church and I always wondered who these people where that St. John, St. Paul and St. Peter wrote to and to what effect did these people have on the history of the Church. But I must warn you, the deeper into history you dig, the less protestant you become…

 

[buckster75]

need the rest of the quote because it is true also

.....Sounds "man" made to me just like the "St." you put in front of John and Peter

 

[Debby in Philly]

Some folks here would say that Catholics split from Baptists, the true church.

In a very broad sense, I would tend to agree. Because when folks started to get the idea that baptism mystically, magically made one a Christian (saved), and then thought, "Gee, if baptism saves you, best to do it as soon as possible." they starting baptizing babies. Those folks became the catholic church. And from the Catholic church came the protestants - all of whom baptize babies to this day.

Meanwhile, the folks who knew and held to the truth that baptism is only an outward sign that a person wanted to identify with Christ AFTER being saved, continued on. That's who baptists (small b) are.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Debby in Philly:
Some folks here would say that Catholics split from Baptists, the true church.

They'd be wrong. The Roman Catholic Church evolved over several hundred years independently, and did not split from any other group, in any sense of the word.

 

[buckster75]

John,
I don't know much about it but Roman Catholic Church must have got some of their beliefs from some other group. Who do they claim as first pope? I thought it was Peter.

 

[jay29]

Originally posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Debby in Philly:
Some folks here would say that Catholics split from Baptists, the true church.

They'd be wrong. The Roman Catholic Church evolved over several hundred years independently, and did not split from any other group, in any sense of the word. </font>[/QUOTE]Catholic Church came from the beginning of Christianity. The breaking of bread continued after the Acension of Our Lord in the catacombs where the beginings of the mass took place. Different prayers, hymns and rites were added and everything was standardized. The Holy Mass is the prayer of the Catholic Church.

You are right. Catholics did not evolve from any other Christian group.

 

[DHK]

The evolution of the Catholic Church began in the fourth century with Constantine. Before that time it was unknown. Constantine married "Christianity" to the state, and this "state-religion" became the Roman Catholic Church. It was Constantitne that paganized Christianity, and in the same breath Christianized the pagans. Why not? He wasn't a Christian himself. His goals were purely political in nature, as were almost all of the popes. "By their fruit ye shall know them."
What fruit?

Revelation 17:5-6 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

The Catholic Church, down through the ages, has persecuted and martyred more Bible-believing Christians than any other religious group, or government in history. Their blood will forever be on its hands.
The Catholic Church did not evolve from Peter, not from the Apostles, not from the early Christians, but rather from a pagan secular leader called Constantine who introduced idolatry into it. It has been a pagan religion ever since, with little resemblence to Christianity. It does not preach the gospel of grace by faith in Christ at all, but rather a religion of works, which has more in common with Hinduism than it does with Christianity.
DHK

 

[riverm]

Originally posted by buckster75:
need the rest of the quote because it is true also

.....Sounds "man" made to me just like the "St." you put in front of John and Peter

Don’t tell me you’re serious? Even my trusty God preserved KJV refers to the Gospels as “The Gospel according to St. John and even Luke. You’re so Romaphobic its sad…

 

[BobRyan]

The RCC admits the the Eucharist is in fact idolatry IF the myths and speculation invented by the church are false as it relates to the Eucharist!

The question here is - is she making a true statement when she says that ONCE you reject her traditions and myths regarding the Eucharist - once you see that as being "false" - then what she is practicing is EVEN by RC standards - idolatry!?

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by DHK:

The Catholic Church, down through the ages, has persecuted and martyred more Bible-believing Christians than any other religious group, or government in history. Their blood will forever be on its hands.

Very true. The Bible was not "blind" to this massive historic "error". It predicted the 1260 years of RC persecution of the saints in Rev 12 and in Daniel 7 following the start of the Christian church and the fall of the pagan Roman empire!

The Catholic Church did not evolve from Peter, not from the Apostles, not from the early Christians, but rather from a pagan secular leader called Constantine who introduced idolatry into it. It has been a pagan religion ever since, with little resemblence to Christianity. It does not preach the gospel of grace by faith in Christ at all, but rather a religion of works, which has more in common with Hinduism than it does with Christianity.
DHK

The RCC own historians admit to the Pagan influence that forever infected the church in the days of Constantine.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[buckster75]

This Book I been reading brings up Baptists first.

 

[larry9179]

When I read the subject line, I thought we were being invited to join a nudist colony. Turns out I wasn't the only one.

 

[buckster75]

Originally posted by riverm:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by buckster75:
need the rest of the quote because it is true also

.....Sounds "man" made to me just like the "St." you put in front of John and Peter

Don’t tell me you’re serious? Even my trusty God preserved KJV refers to the Gospels as “The Gospel according to St. John and even Luke. You’re so Romaphobic its sad… </font>[/QUOTE]So the titles of the Books are part of the Scripture? No I don't think so. People put those there. It is the content that is from God.
Just because I do not agree with you does not mean I have any phobia.

 

[Matt Black]

Jay29, to answer your OP, it was neither the initial intention of Luther nor Calvin to split or destroy the CC but rather to reform it (Luther in particular was forced to leave the CC). And there is no denying IMHO that there were things that needed reforming - as the CC herself acknowledged in the Council of Trent. In particular, the influence of late medieval scholastics of the likes of Gabriel Biel led de facto to a form of salvation by works which basically contradicted the CC's earlier condemnations of both Pelagianism and semi-Pelagianism at the Synods of Carthage (418) and Orange (529) and indirectly led to the abuse of indulgences. Although Trent and the Counter-Reformation dealt with these problems to a certain extent IMO the Magisterial Reformation did a better job and therefore was an (unfortunate maybe) necessity.

 

[webdog]

So you mean to tell me just beleiving in Jesus (I do)asking for forgiveness (i do all the time) and hob knobbing with each other during bible study on Sunday is all need to get into heaven?

It worked for the thief on the cross (all but the "hob knobbing" in Sunday School), didn't it? I don't recall him ever being a memeber of a church, or participating in any sacraments...just believing in Jesus.