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Becareful of "soul winners"

Discussion in 'Fundamental Baptist Forum' started by agedman, Dec 6, 2011.

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  1. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    This is an admonition about a post on another thread that can bring the thinking of what I consider a major problem throughout the church body and throughout the centuries.

    It is a question or statement of approval of a person, method, or version of Scripture has higher authority in a mater or has, in the case of humankind, certain excuse for moral or personal excess just because of the salvation of souls.

    The Word of God is the key and any heathen proclaiming the Word of God can have results of folks both saved and even growth. Because the proclaiming of the Word of God is using God's tool, He will not allow it to be used or abused without consequence of both the good and hurtful.

    Please, forum folk be careful that this thinking that a person, event or whatever is approved of God just because people are saved, or some other happening!
     
    #1 agedman, Dec 6, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 6, 2011
  2. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    What post are you referring to?
     
    #2 Winman, Dec 6, 2011
  3. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    I wonder what Paul thought....Hmmm....

    Philipians 1
    15 It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16 The latter do so out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17 The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. 18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.
     
    #3 InTheLight, Dec 6, 2011
  4. abcgrad94

    abcgrad94 Active Member

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    I believe I know which post you are referring to and I agree with you.

    God rewards us for faithfulness, whether or not souls are saved. We cannot MAKE people get saved, and it's not a sign of failure if a man is obeying God and souls aren't heeding. Many good men have preached for years and did not see souls get saved, but they were obeying God.
     
    #4 abcgrad94, Dec 6, 2011
  5. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    I think Isaiah is a good example.
     
    #5 Amy.G, Dec 6, 2011
  6. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    What post is it? Apparently I've missed it.
     
    #6 Amy.G, Dec 6, 2011
  7. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Yes...in other words...anyone who desires to win souls unto God's glory should also be concerned with using methods and teaching that honors God.
    Paul could rejoice that God saves despite errors as he understood that God is seeking and saving each one he intends to save.
    Some persons started looking at a bible because of some cult...like mormonism....that does not mean that mormonism is a -ok
     
    #7 Iconoclast, Dec 6, 2011
  8. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    I apologize agedman, but your post here is very difficult to comprehend...kind of runon, ran together.
     
    #8 preacher4truth, Dec 6, 2011
  9. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    If we take the OP title at face value (I couldn't figure out the OP meaning), then we must be careful of Charles Spurgeon, who wrote The Soul Winner. He wrote, "Soul-winning is the chief business of the Christian minister; indeed, it should be the main pursuit of every true believer" (The Soul Winner, p. 15).

    Be careful also of J. I. Packer who wrote about Paul: “His aim and object in all his handling of the gospel, even in the heat of the polemics which contrary views evoked, was never less than to win souls, by converting those whom he saw as his neighbours to faith in the Lord Jesus Christ” (Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God, p. 53; all emphasis by Packer).
     
    #9 John of Japan, Dec 6, 2011
  10. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    Yes. I am happy to hear that I am not the only person who had serious trouble trying to decipher the OP.

    I take it that he must be condemning individuals. I wonder, did Paul also get condemned for being a soul-winner?
     
    #10 preacher4truth, Dec 6, 2011
  11. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    I think we need clarification. :laugh:
     
    #11 Amy.G, Dec 6, 2011
  12. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    You mean "Paul the aged" man? :smilewinkgrin:
     
    #12 John of Japan, Dec 6, 2011
  13. abcgrad94

    abcgrad94 Active Member

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    I believe the post is in the thread "Is this typical in IFB churches" post number 144 by Whowillgo. The thread is talking about preachers who use screaming tactics to deliver their sermons. I believe the idea of the post was that as long as souls were being saved, it didn't matter if the preacher yelled or not. At least, that's what I gathered from the post.

    So, the op of this thread is telling us to be careful about that line of thinking, "souls are being saved" isn't a true litmus test of someone's calling.
     
    #13 abcgrad94, Dec 6, 2011
  14. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    :thumbsup:

    Good point.
     
    #14 preacher4truth, Dec 6, 2011
  15. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    If this is what the OP is about, I can give input, having been in a "Gospel resistant" country for 30 years. After 150 years of Protestant missions, only 1% of Japan claims Christianity, and only 1/2% claims to be evangelical.

    So I might be excused if I agree that souls being saved is not a litmus test. But I don't. I believe that if God has truly called someone, souls will be saved. It may not be many, especially in a Gospel-resistant culture, but God will use the preacher to win someone, if only one a year.

    Note what Paul considered to be the "seal" of his apostleship in 1 Cor. 9:2 If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord." To Paul, the souls saved in Corinth proved his call. Again, Paul said to the Romans: "And I am sure that, when I come unto you, I shall come in the fulness of the blessing of the gospel of Christ" (15:29). So Paul believed that God would bless the Word preached if done so in God's power.

    Having said all of that, God does require faithfulness, which glorifies Him. So I'll never build a big church here in Japan, never get famous, but I plan to be faithful as long as He wants me here.
     
    #15 John of Japan, Dec 6, 2011
  16. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

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    That's a great book. I wish every Christian would read it. It certainly cleared up some of my misconceptions about evangelism.
     
    #16 Mexdeaf, Dec 6, 2011
  17. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    repost with clarification

    I hurriedly wrote, "This is an admonition about a post on another thread that can bring the thinking of what I consider a major problem throughout the church body and throughout the centuries.

    It is a question or statement of approval of a person, method, or version of Scripture has higher authority in a mater or has, in the case of humankind, certain excuse for moral or personal excess just because of the salvation of souls.

    The Word of God is the key and any heathen proclaiming the Word of God can have results of folks both saved and even growth. Because the proclaiming of the Word of God is using God's tool, He will not allow it to be used or abused without consequence of both the good and hurtful.

    Please, forum folk be careful that this thinking that a person, event or whatever is approved of God just because people are saved, or some other happening"


    I probably shouldn't have chosen the word abomination.

    However, that is the word describing the personal feelings that erupt when one attempts to place validity upon a person, ministry, or even a version of the Scriptures because of the numbers of people who attend or have been impacted.

    I might add that the opposite is true, also. I have witnessed meetings where very good Godly people were being shut off from support and their work questioned because they did not have a certain level of responses (souls saved, lives changed ...).

    I sat in meetings where some version of the Scripture was puffed up and others torn down solely upon the number of lives that version has changed. In fact, one message was delivered that even stated that unless foreign translations were translated from the ______ version they were not the Word of God. (I purposed not to put in the version less the thread be derailed into what constitutes the most accurate Word of God.)

    In no way am I being, nor would I be, critical of any Godly and faithful witness be it a professional such as a pastor, missionary, or a mere soldier of the cross that is following God's will for their life.

    The post was a general warning to those who would make a statement in which the validation of a person, ministry or Scripture version used was based upon numbers and success rate.

    Consider the cries of the public to dismiss or laud a coach because a team has a loosing or winning season. Everybody wants a winner, and will follow after the most popular and successful and excuse all manor of excess and moral failure if there is the substantial success rate. What is true in the general public can be found in a private person's attitude unless they are highly aware of the deceitfulness of this type of thinking.

    Please excuse the blundering post that started this thread. I should learn that when I am nearly out of time to just log out.
     
    #17 agedman, Dec 6, 2011
  18. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    My all time favorite of Packer's is his book, Knowing God.
     
    #18 agedman, Dec 6, 2011
  19. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

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    Thanks for the clarification. I think we all understand better-- and likely agree.
     
    #19 Mexdeaf, Dec 7, 2011
  20. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    So then, do you think being a soul winner is right, contra your OP title?
     
    #20 John of Japan, Dec 7, 2011
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