Featured Before the Bema

Romans 2:6-16 says that the future judgment that we face deals with going to heaven or hell.

Romans 6:23 says the "wages of sin is death"

2Cor 5:10 says that the judgment deals with both sin and good deeds "done in the body"

 

Romans 2

5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who will render to each person according to his deeds: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God. 12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.
...

26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

 

ONLY in the false teachings of your "prophetess" does that judgement involve deciding heaven/hell, as ALL who have received jesus in this life will get to heaven, not one lost by Him, this is JUST a judgement unto value of good works done here for purpose of getting eternally rewarded or not!

 

I've always been curious, Y1, as to the notion of eternal reward. Some contend that this judgment will determine the varying levels of reward we receive in Heaven. So what does that mean? Does that mean bigger mansions? Brighter crowns?

Also, is it not possible for varying degrees of reward to open the door for jealously and envy in Heaven? Or will God strip away all emotion from us completely?

I'm curious, as I've never seen this fully explained by anyone.

 

Romans 2

5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who will render to each person according to his deeds: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God. 12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.
...

26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

1. Turns out Romans 2 was written by Paul - not be a prophetess.
2. Turns out the content of Romans 2 matters much more than simply flame posting while waiting to respond to the points raised in Romans 2.

3. When I debate catholics on these subjects they struggle with the idea that sola scriptura testing is valid and that the details in the text should be noticed instead of just flame posting as the response.

I am guessing everyone here can see how that would be a problem.

in Christ,

Bob

 

The idea that the Romans 2 and 2Cor 5:10 future judgment confine the subject to nothing more than "how many toys in heaven" is disproven by the details in Romans 2 that so many are anxious to avoid..

 

If I may..........

Yes, He is Faithful. We ARE the Righteousness of God in Him. We HAVE calm, confident assurance, Glorious calm, confident assurance, which IS the Righteousness of God; we rejoice in calm, confident assurance of God's Glory.

:applause:

 

Certainly it is true that in this life we make our decisions for heaven or hell and "it is appointed unto man once to die and then comes the judgment" Heb 9.

However in Romans 2:13-16, and in 2Cor 5:10 judgment is future for all.

But in Rev 14:6-7 "the hours of his judgment HAS come" is the message of the first angel - indicating a time future to John when it can be said that the Judgment hour is fully come.

True for the saints -- not true for those who have "fallen from Grace... and have been severed from Christ" (Gal 5:$) according to 2Cor 5;10

"WE must all stand before the judgment seat of Christ" -- and in 2Cor 5:10 both good AND evil deeds are said to be evaluated "whether they be good or evil" it does not say "and of course we only have good deeds".

And of course Romans 6 makes it clear that the "wages of sin is death" -

Christ said in Matt 7 "not everyone who SAYS Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven - but he who DOES the will of My Father"

Romans 2:13-16 "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are JUST before God but the DOERS of the Law will (future) be justiFIED... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God WILL judge"

1 John 2 makes the case -
My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

this is the same "by their fruits" condition that Christ affirms in Matt 7 and that Paul affirms in Rom 2:6-16.

True of the lost - no doubt.

But many of those are in church having fallen from grace and been severed from Christ.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Heard Charles Stanley teach on this very subject, and he actually made sense of it...

He said that while all will go into the Heavenly Choir assembly, that based upon how faithful we were to do the Will pof God in our lives hear, God will grant us the means to perceive and enjoy the Choir,

Those saved as if by fire get the back row, and will enjoy what they see and know of it, while those awarded front row will get to see and understand much more ot it...

 

he holds to the false teachings of SDA concering the Investigative Judgement of believers after death, as he holds that NONE can know for certain they have eternal life, for if the lives judged do not allow god to suppor that, they forfeit the life in christ, and will get burned away..

 

NT Authors were pretty big on testing all doctrine "sola scriptura" which is why I keep bringing scripture into this discussion.

In Mark 7:6-13 there were conflicting views - but Christ showed that there is a "sola scriptura" solution even in those cases.

This is the same discussion we often have with our RC friends - trying to convince them that the Bible matters even if opinions vary - and the Bible is helpful even where differences exist.

I am pretty much sold on that idea.

How often do we see examples as in the case of Acts 13, and Acts 17 and Acts 18 where Paul is going before people to explain his minority view "Sola Scriptura" -- The fact that a view is popular or not ... or the fact that it differs with this person or that person - is not what determines what is truth. It is not how the Protestant Reformation was decided. Rather the decision had to be based on the Bible and the conclusion that the Bible produces has to be taken seriously even if it is not popular within this or that group.

Once Paul places the judgment in the Romans 2 context with results of that future judgment indicating eternal life or the lake of fire... and once he adds in "evil deeds" in the mix for that future judgment as in the case of 2Cor 5:10 -- and given that HE is the one that affirms the 'Forgiveness revoked" doctrine that Christ preaches in Matt 18 -- in places like Romans 11 "you should fear for if He did not spare them neither will He spare you" type of language.

It casts a much broader scope of illumination on the subject of the future judgment. Why back away from that? It is only revealing a much larger picture.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Those who have had their sins washed by the blood of jesus have forever passed over from spiritual death unto spiritual life, so the false claims made by the SDA as regarding the Investigative Judgement to see if one was found worthy to keep eternal life are not found i the scriptures, but in the false revelations of a false prophetess!

 

No; He -- Christ -- is faithful; He -- Christ -- is The Faithful : He -- Christ -- IS "the Righteousness namely of GOD" : He -- Christ -- "THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS".

We, "are RECKONED just" : "in Christ", "by grace", "through faith".
We received, calm, and are confident in Christ, our assurance -- WHO IS the Righteousness of God. And we rejoice in full confidence in our Assurance -- Christ -- and glory in God in HIM, to the glory of His, Name.

"Blessed assurance, Jesus is mine ..." is sung commonly among all Christians (if I can remember). There has after all remained some unity amongst us all, it seems to me
Und es freut mich sehr.

Post script:

It remains one of the GREAT WONDERS of grace to me, how DOCTRINE takes flight when POETRY enters the heart.

 

PLEASE, don't place ME anywhere in that choir! It must be Hell's Choir!

 

... and still I have no clue what "the Bema" is ... eish!