Being named a Catholic Saint

[The Biblicist]

Well I have an image of my wife - its called a photo. She is anything but unseen. Perhaps you should use a word different word from that of "image."

WM

We have been discussing this issue in the context of religion and religious worship. Do you bow down to the image of your wife and prayer to her?

The prohibitions of images are always in the area of religion and religious worship and always in the context of bowing down to them and directing to them any other acts of worship that God receives and regards as acts of worship.

The golden calfs were understood to have been manufactured by the hands of Aaron with the gold supplied by the people bowing down to them. They were bowing down to them as VISIBLE REPRESENTATIVES of the Elohim that opened up the Red sea and delivered them from Pharoah. Hence, God condemns REPRESENTATIVE IMAGES of anything in heaven or on earth that receives acts of worship whether it is directed ultimately to God or not!

For example the lid of the ark is in the context of religion and religious worship but God never prescribed any kind of bowing to this lid or any other furniture designed and used in the tabernacle/temple. The ark was not a visible representation through which angels were prayed to or God was prayed to or they were to bow down before.

Roman Catholicism violates these very basic prohibitions when they argue that such visible images only act as visible representations that are used in worship of invisible things.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Being recognized as a Roman Catholic Saint is a long road.

Methods have changed over the past 17 centuries.

Currently one part of the canonization is evidence of one miracle. Since miracles are considered proof that the person is in heaven and can intercede for us. (bold emphasis mine)

Would you consider this idolatry? The RC church says no, because it nothing more than a person carrying a picture of person in their wallet.

Thoughts?

Salty

If only Jesus is allowed to intercede for us then stop praying for other christians. You are not allowed to intercede for other people. And if anyone asks you to pray on their behalf tell them that they are commiting idolatry.

BTW Catholics don't say no because of pictures but because a person who is in Christ is alive forever and are a continuous part of the body of Christ. Their operation in the body doesn't stop because they body has. This is the Catholic understanding of it.

 

[DaChaser1]

If only Jesus is allowed to intercede for us then stop praying for other christians. You are not allowed to intercede for other people. And if anyone asks you to pray on their behalf tell them that they are commiting idolatry.

BTW Catholics don't say no because of pictures but because a person who is in Christ is alive forever and are a continuous part of the body of Christ. Their operation in the body doesn't stop because they body has. This is the Catholic understanding of it.

Where in the Bible did the Lord OK us to talk to ANY person other than Jesus though in prayer?

Model is to pray to the father, thru Jesus, in power of the HS!

Also, the Apostle Peter"First Pope" per the RCC, claimed that ALl christians are known and called as saints and priests unto the Lord!

So ALL christians are thus saints, so why would any have to be venerated?

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Where in the Bible did the Lord OK us to talk to ANY person other than Jesus though in prayer?

Model is to pray to the father, thru Jesus, in power of the HS!

When Jesus did it himself to Moses and Elijah. Both men had passed on into the next phase of life and Jesus spoke with them. Also in revelation it speaks of the saints lifting up their prayers for those here on earth.

However, if you wan't to be consistent then don't ask other christians to pray for you and certainly don't pray for other Chrisitans.

Also note what 1 Tim 2:1 says

First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people

 

[WestminsterMan]

We have been discussing this issue in the context of religion and religious worship. Do you bow down to the image of your wife and prayer to her?

Not to her image - just to her. I kneeled before her and prayed [asked] that she marry me. Thus, in the familial context which is by the way a religious one, I did the very thing that you eschew. Hmmm.... Well, I guess that makes me an idolator. Who'd a thunk it.

WM

 

[WestminsterMan]

Where in the Bible did the Lord OK us to talk to ANY person other than Jesus though in prayer?

Model is to pray to the father, thru Jesus, in power of the HS!

Also, the Apostle Peter"First Pope" per the RCC, claimed that ALl christians are known and called as saints and priests unto the Lord!

So ALL christians are thus saints, so why would any have to be venerated?

All Christians aren't in heaven and thus perfected before the presence of God. The saints under discussion ARE in heaven. Big diff.

WM

 

[WestminsterMan]

When Jesus did it himself to Moses and Elijah. Both men had passed on into the next phase of life and Jesus spoke with them. Also in revelation it speaks of the saints lifting up their prayers for those here on earth.

However, if you wan't to be consistent then don't ask other christians to pray for you and certainly don't pray for other Chrisitans.

Also note what 1 Tim 2:1 says:

First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people

I tried to explain the difference between having only one mediator and interceeding for others. I guess this verse proves the difference. Chirst is the only mediator, but anyone can intercede.

WM

 

[The Biblicist]

Not to her image - just to her. I kneeled before her and prayed [asked] that she marry me. Thus, in the familial context which is by the way a religious one, I did the very thing that you eschew. Hmmm.... Well, I guess that makes me an idolator. Who'd a thunk it.

WM

The marriage ceremony could be a religous one but you asked her to marry you before you got to the ceremony. I don't recall any bowing at marriage ceremonies unless that is the way Catholics do it?

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I tried to explain the difference between having only one mediator and interceeding for others. I guess this verse proves the difference. Chirst is the only mediator, but anyone can intercede.

WM

You are quite right.

 

[WestminsterMan]

The marriage ceremony could be a religous one but you asked her to marry you before you got to the ceremony. I don't recall any bowing at marriage ceremonies unless that is the way Catholics do it?

Well, since you agree that the marriage ceremony is religious in nature just as is the Mass, then would you agree that kneeling during the Mass is ok?

WM

 

[DaChaser1]

I tried to explain the difference between having only one mediator and interceeding for others. I guess this verse proves the difference. Chirst is the only mediator, but anyone can intercede.

WM

Yes, but ONLY those alive physical on this earth can go before God to inercede for others!

 

[DaChaser1]

All Christians aren't in heaven and thus perfected before the presence of God. The saints under discussion ARE in heaven. Big diff.

WM

I am JUST as much a saint as peter/paul and John, as they were saved SAME way that I was, soely by the Grace of God in the Cross of christ!