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Being saved and the 10 commandments
- Thread starter Chowmah
- Start date
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Being saved and the New Covenant as defined in the actual Bible - Jer 31:31-33, Heb 8.
in Christ,
Bob
As i said before
HEBREWS 8 [8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: [9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. [10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MIND, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS:
That new covenant has not yet arrived. When Gods writes His law in our hearts....we will be keeping that law.
HEBREWS 8 [8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: [9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. [10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MIND, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS:
That new covenant has not yet arrived. When Gods writes His law in our hearts....we will be keeping that law.
Matthew 26:28
King James Version (KJV)
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Mark 14:24
King James Version (KJV)
24 And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.
Luke 22:20
King James Version (KJV)
20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
1 Corinthians 11:25
King James Version (KJV)
25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
2 Corinthians 3:6
King James Version (KJV)
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
Hebrews 9:15
King James Version (KJV)
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Christ, Matthew, Mark, Luke, Paul, and myself...would beg to differ with you.
Okay, maybe not beg, simply point out some Basic Bible Doctrine.
God bless.
What a non answer
It is a little bit better of an answer than your contribution, lol.
Feel better?
God bless.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Being saved and the New Covenant as defined in the actual Bible - Jer 31:31-33, Heb 8.
IS the Bible really so terrible??
Is the mere mention of it sufficient cause to give rise to strong objection?
Or are you saying that the New Covenant is not the Gospel? That it has nothing to do with sins forgiven and adoption - even though it says that is what it is about?
Simply complaining as the only response to those texts leaves a lot of room for guesswork.
IS the Bible really so terrible??
Is the mere mention of it sufficient cause to give rise to strong objection?
Or are you saying that the New Covenant is not the Gospel? That it has nothing to do with sins forgiven and adoption - even though it says that is what it is about?
Simply complaining as the only response to those texts leaves a lot of room for guesswork.
What leave a lot of room for guess work is your refusal to answer a direct question with a direct answer. Providing scripture is great but we need to know how you are interpreting those scripture on this issue. So yes or no to the op.
No other words necessary....yes or no?
Yes or no.....................
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Must we honor Father and Mother to be saved?
do we earn our salvation by honoring our parents?
Really???
Well if not - can we simply ignore that commandment?
Surely these are not the games that are to be played.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Some may be tempted to think of Christ as a "legalist" when they read Mark 7 because it sounds so much like the New Covenant of Jer 31:31-33 - but Christ is not preaching salvation by Works --
[FONT="]Mark 7
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
[/FONT]
[FONT="]When Christ speaks of one of the Ten Commandments He tells us that they are the “Word of God” – the “Commandment of God” and “Moses said”
The Law accomplishes condemnation for the lost.
[FONT="]But for the sa[FONT="]ved - it i[FONT="]s written on the mind and heart. The very part of the New Covenant most reje[FONT="]cted by some and accepted by others.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]Mark 7
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
[/FONT]
[FONT="]When Christ speaks of one of the Ten Commandments He tells us that they are the “Word of God” – the “Commandment of God” and “Moses said”
The Law accomplishes condemnation for the lost.
[FONT="]But for the sa[FONT="]ved - it i[FONT="]s written on the mind and heart. The very part of the New Covenant most reje[FONT="]cted by some and accepted by others.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
[FONT="]Matt 19[/FONT][FONT="]
And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” 17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “
You shall not commit murder;
You shall not commit adultery;
You shall not steal;
You shall not bear false witness;
19 Honor your father and mother;
and
You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
Matt 5
17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Luke 16[/FONT]
[FONT="]17[/FONT][FONT="] And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail.
18 “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced from her husband commits adultery. [/FONT]
[FONT="]Luke 24[/FONT]
[FONT="]25[/FONT][FONT="] And He said to them, "O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken!
26 "Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into His glory?"
27 Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.[/FONT][FONT="]
[/FONT][FONT="]
44 Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled."[/FONT]
[FONT="]Note that in 1John 5 - John contrasts "LOVE", to the Commandments of God. He does not say "By this we know that we Love God -- if we Love God".
Rather John points to obedience to the WORD of God "the Commandments of God" as the sign that we truly to LOVE God. Being at war against his Word is not such a great sign of "loving God" as some had perhaps imagined.
1 John 5
"Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.
2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:1-3
[/FONT]
And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” 17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “
You shall not commit murder;
You shall not commit adultery;
You shall not steal;
You shall not bear false witness;
19 Honor your father and mother;
and
You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
Matt 5
17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Luke 16[/FONT]
[FONT="]17[/FONT][FONT="] And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail.
18 “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced from her husband commits adultery. [/FONT]
[FONT="]Luke 24[/FONT]
[FONT="]25[/FONT][FONT="] And He said to them, "O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken!
26 "Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into His glory?"
27 Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.[/FONT][FONT="]
[/FONT][FONT="]
44 Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled."[/FONT]
[FONT="]Note that in 1John 5 - John contrasts "LOVE", to the Commandments of God. He does not say "By this we know that we Love God -- if we Love God".
Rather John points to obedience to the WORD of God "the Commandments of God" as the sign that we truly to LOVE God. Being at war against his Word is not such a great sign of "loving God" as some had perhaps imagined.
1 John 5
"Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.
2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:1-3
[/FONT]
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
[FONT="]Here we have section 19 of the Westminster - and of course you already have a few posts of mine quoting the "Baptist Confession of Faith"
[/FONT]
[FONT="]"Westminster Confession of Faith"[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Chapter XIX Of the Law Of God[/FONT][/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Westminster Confession of Faith Section 19 - link[/FONT][/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]I. God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which He bound him and all his posterity, to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience, promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it, and endued him with power and ability to keep it.[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][1][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="]
II. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in Ten Commandments, and written in two tables:[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][2][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="] the first four commandments containing our duty towards God; and the other six, our duty to man.[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][3][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="]
III. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a church under age, ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, His graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits;[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][4][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="] and partly, holding forth divers instructions of moral duties.[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][5][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="] All which ceremonial laws are now abrogated, under the New Testament.[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][6][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="]
IV. To them also, as a body politic, He gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the State of that people; not obliging under any now, further than the general equity thereof may require.[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][7][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="]
V. The moral law does forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof;[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][8][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="] and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it.[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][9][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="] Neither does Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][10][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="]
VI. Although true believers be not under the law, as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified, or condemned;[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][11][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="] yet is it of great use to them, as well as to others; in that, as a rule of life informing them of the will of God, and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly;[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][12][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="] discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature, hearts and lives;[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][13][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="] so as, examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin,[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][14][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="] together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ, and the perfection of His obedience.[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][15][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="] It is likewise of use to the regenerate, to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin:[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][16][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="] and the threatenings of it serve to show what even their sins deserve; and what afflictions, in this life, they may expect for them, although freed from the curse thereof threatened in the law.[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][17][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="] The promises of it, in like manner, show them God's approbation of obedience,and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof:[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][18][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="] although not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works.[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][19][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="] So as, a man's doing good, and refraining from evil, because the law encourages to the one and deters from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law: and not under grace.[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][20][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="]
VII. Neither are the forementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but do sweetly comply with it;[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][21][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="] the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely, and cheerfully, which the will of God, revealed in the law, requires to be done.[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][22][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="]
[/FONT]
=============================================
1 Cor 7:19 'what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
[/FONT]
[FONT="]"Westminster Confession of Faith"[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Chapter XIX Of the Law Of God[/FONT][/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Westminster Confession of Faith Section 19 - link[/FONT][/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Chapter XIX[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]Of the Law of God[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
II. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in Ten Commandments, and written in two tables:[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][2][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="] the first four commandments containing our duty towards God; and the other six, our duty to man.[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][3][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="]
III. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a church under age, ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, His graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits;[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][4][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="] and partly, holding forth divers instructions of moral duties.[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][5][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="] All which ceremonial laws are now abrogated, under the New Testament.[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][6][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="]
IV. To them also, as a body politic, He gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the State of that people; not obliging under any now, further than the general equity thereof may require.[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][7][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="]
V. The moral law does forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof;[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][8][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="] and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it.[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][9][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="] Neither does Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][10][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="]
VI. Although true believers be not under the law, as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified, or condemned;[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][11][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="] yet is it of great use to them, as well as to others; in that, as a rule of life informing them of the will of God, and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly;[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][12][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="] discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature, hearts and lives;[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][13][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="] so as, examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin,[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][14][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="] together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ, and the perfection of His obedience.[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][15][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="] It is likewise of use to the regenerate, to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin:[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][16][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="] and the threatenings of it serve to show what even their sins deserve; and what afflictions, in this life, they may expect for them, although freed from the curse thereof threatened in the law.[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][17][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="] The promises of it, in like manner, show them God's approbation of obedience,and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof:[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][18][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="] although not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works.[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][19][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="] So as, a man's doing good, and refraining from evil, because the law encourages to the one and deters from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law: and not under grace.[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][20][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="]
VII. Neither are the forementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but do sweetly comply with it;[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][21][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="] the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely, and cheerfully, which the will of God, revealed in the law, requires to be done.[/FONT][FONT="][FONT="][22][/FONT][/FONT][FONT="]
[/FONT]
=============================================
1 Cor 7:19 'what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
We must honor our Mother and Father for the same reason which it was written in the Law for: because God has commanded it.
And the same penalty still lies upon Christians for failure to obey God: physical death.
But the confusion is raised when people impose a salvific element to obedience to the Law.
It was never intended to bring about Eternal Salvation.
Now how would people know to honor their Father and Mother before the Law was given, Bob?
God bless.
You keep leaving off a critical part of this passage:
1 John 5:1-5
King James Version (KJV)
1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
You will need to show regeneration under Old Testament Economies in order for the point you seek to make here to be valid.
And you're not going to be able to do that.
The Old Testament is physical, the New Testament is spiritual.
The True Bread was not available to men, no matter how much we want to try to impose that into the Law or before.
The Two Testaments can be divided thus: Promise/Promise bestowed.
While a semblance of receiving promise is seen (i.e. manna, promised land, a king), the reality of the Promises of God did not come under those Economies.
We have a similar scenario even now, in that we are redeemed yet still await the redemption of our bodies.
God bless.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
[FONT="]1 John 5
"Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.
2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:1-3[/FONT]
I usually quote 1-4 of that chapter - but 5 is great too - I was just trying to keep the text volume down since some are adverse to reading.
Do you think vs 5 changes the entire chapter??
If so "how"??
in Christ,
Bob
"Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.
2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:1-3[/FONT]
I usually quote 1-4 of that chapter - but 5 is great too - I was just trying to keep the text volume down since some are adverse to reading.
Do you think vs 5 changes the entire chapter??
If so "how"??
in Christ,
Bob