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Beyond Penal Substitutionary Atonement

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Deacon, Mar 5, 2022.

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  1. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    I received an email invitation from Peter Enns this week inviting pastors to a webinar called!

    Preaching Salvation Beyond Penal Substitutionary Atonement [link]

    I enjoy reading Pete Enns blog (The Bible for Normal People) and is many popular books.
    He is rather controversial and stretches my rather conservative view points: he makes me think
    (perhaps I’m conservative only in my own eyes, lol).
    But he seminar made me realize that I’d already been thinking about this very topic all week.

    I’ve been struggling with the question of salvation in my rather ill, 6 year old granddaughter.
    She has been lightly educated with bible stories and the gospel, but to my limited knowledge has not formally made a profession of faith.

    I’ve spent a week or so in thought, considering how best to approach the topic with her.
    What would be the best way to present the gospel to her?
    PSA theory is quite complicated, perhaps uninviting to a 6 year old.

    I thought, Jesus didn’t present it that way. He invited people into his kingdom.
    How was the gospel presented by the apostles in Acts?
    I worked through a plan then I searched the internet to see if my presentation was considered orthodox.

    Sure enough, I stumbled into the Christus Victory theory of Atonement
    (Christus Victor - The Gospel Coalition )
    It is not a view I’ve used before.

    Is anyone familiar with presenting the gospel using this method?
    What is your experience?

    Rob
     
    #1 Deacon, Mar 5, 2022
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  2. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    I have no such experience. One of my most prized books is Systematic Theology : Biblical And Historical by Robert Duncan Culver. On page 596 Culver writes briefly :
    "There is sufficient evidence for this view that Gustaf Aulen's book ( Christus Victor, 1969) has received favorable notice from even competent, conservative, evangelical quarters (Walvoord).
     
    #2 RipponRedeaux, Mar 5, 2022
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  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    It is an easy question for me, as I have come to believe PSA foreign to Scripture.

    I would focus on gospel. The difficulty of Scripture is often its simplicity, but children rarely have this problem. When we grow older it seems we like to complicate things...perhaps we find the simple truths a bit too simple.

    CS Lewis' book (or the movie...perhaps the earlier one) The Lion, Witch and Wardrobe may be a tool for discussion or a gateway to introduce a conversation.
     
    #3 JonC, Mar 5, 2022
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  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The Atonement was completed first, John 19:28. Declared just before His physical death, John 19:30, for the purpose of His bodily resurrection, Romans 4:1, for His victory over death, 1 Corinthians 15:53-57, ". . . For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. . . ." And for us at our resurrection and rapture. Romans 5:10, ". . . For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. . . ."
     
    #4 37818, Mar 5, 2022
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  5. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    No reason to present either view to a 6 year old. Especially one that is ill.

    Paul gave the what was of “first importance” concerning the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15. Jesus died for our sins, according to the scripture. He was buried and rose from the dead, according to the scripture. After He was raised from the dead, He was seen alive by more than 500 people.

    Pray God Holy Spirit will prepare her. Give her what was of “first importance” and trust God to lead her into faith.

    peace to you
     
    #5 canadyjd, Mar 6, 2022
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  6. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Yes. It is not the Gospel.
    I am very sorry to hear about your granddaughter. I do pray that she will make a swift and complete recovery.
    Just the simple fact that our Lord Jesus has taken all the sins of those who will trust in Him upon Himself and paid the penalty for them in full is sufficient for one of her age. Nothing complicated in that.
     
    #6 Martin Marprelate, Mar 6, 2022
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  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Missionaries often start with Abraham and Isaac. Perhaps this could be a good starting point?

    Before introducing any extra biblical theologies (Penal Substitution Theory, Government Theory, Moral Influence Theory, etc) I would recommend staying close to Scripture and the actual gospel message.

    For a young child, Matthew or Luke would maybe provide the best testimony.
     
    #7 JonC, Mar 6, 2022
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  8. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Sin earns death, death of the soul.
    Romans 6:23. And eternal life is a gift.
    And the gift was paid by Christ. Romans 5:8.
     
    #8 37818, Mar 6, 2022
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