Bible Study: The Commands of Christ

[ituttut]

Hi Ituttut,

"Should we really try to find a LOOP HOLE in order to try and justify what we believe?" No, but we should support what we teach as doctrine from sources that appear to be written by inspired authors, not additions by uninspired men.

I could not follow you effort concerning Old Testament and New Testament. The Old Covenant ended at the cross, and the New Covenant began with the sacrificed blood of Christ.

Of course Mark's gospel is true. Just do not quote Mark 16:9-20 as support for doctrine without also citing a parallel passage in another gospel. Serious doubts exist as to whether these verses belong to the Gospel of Mark.

To Mark first. If you cannot quote Mark 16:9-20, How can you quote Matthew 28:19?

As to the Testaments, we know that Jesus lived in OT time for He was under the Law of Moses. After the Cross we know the Kingdom was still at hand, for Israel had another chance to receive Messiah as their King. Had they done this then the Tribulation period would have been next. Jesus did shed His blood that would bring in the NT. However we know from Luke 13:6-9, even though Messiah had been cut-off, the tree still stood. So while Israel was still living in OT time, yet NT time had started right after the Cross. So what you have, even after the Cross is actually still OT because Prophecy was still in action. However Jesus while still living in the OT gave His Apostles broken bread and red wine. Matthew 26:26-29 tells this is a one (1) time event for them. From the OT He points to the coming NT.

Here is what I find in scripture as to Old Testament, and New Testament. I believe both will endure until time is no more.

a. OT until the Cross.

b. OT/NT to Pentecost, but Blood not applied.

c. OT/NT after Pentecost until Acts 9, Power of Holy Ghost available to Israel, and Blood available, but not applied. The Salvation that was available was found in the Great Commission. Peter told thos men of Israel you must be Water Baptized to gain Remission of Sins.

d. OT/NT Blood available, and applied to the Gentile in Acts 10. The blood is applied to the Gentile, apart from laws, rituals, and ordinances of the Covenant people.

e. OT/NT with Blood available, and applied to Gentiles (Body of Christ) which Peter comes to recognizes "But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they", Acts 15:11. Israel, and their proselytes will be saved into the Body of Christ.

e. OT/NT salvation, but Power of the Holy Ghost given to some, last shown when Paul approaches Rome.

f. Paul was chosen by Christ Jesus from heaven to be the Apostle to not only the Gentile, but also to the Jew. Paul preached to those that will inherit the earth the Kingdom of God. But Paul also had a Heavenly Gospel. He also preached "those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ", i.e. The Body of Christ, Acts 28:31.

g. As we now rest from our study of His Word, we may see that we have a choice. Israel did not have a choice of avoiding the Tribulation period, because they made Covenant with Him. But we today can choose. I choose to be in the Body of Christ. Some choose to be in the Kingdom of God. That said, I do believe all are in the Kingdom of God, but are all in the Body of Christ?

 

[Van]

Hi Ituttut, you seem to have wandered far from the Commands of Christ. I can quote any part, bracketed or not, of the Bible. What I said, is do not teach as doctrine from sections under a cloud, Mark 16:9-20 may have been added.

Then, seeming unable to understand you ask how I can quote, probably meaning teach as doctrine from Matthew 28:19. First, as I said, Matthew 28:19 is not under a cloud, modern scholarship does not question that it is part of Matthew's Gospel. Second, because of this verse, we can teach Mark 16:15 as doctrine, because it is supported by an unchallenged parallel verse.

As far as your traditional dispensationalism, I have no need to discuss it. My view differs, I am a progress dispensationist because of Galatians chapter 3, but that is a subject for another thread.

Now if you want to post something helpful for this thread, show me a command or teaching of Christ that (1) does not mirror some teaching in the OP, and (2) does not come only from a challenged section of scripture.

You said there were other teachings in the other books, let see some with references.

 

[ituttut]

Hi Ituttut, you seem to have wandered far from the Commands of Christ. I can quote any part, bracketed or not, of the Bible. What I said, is do not teach as doctrine from sections under a cloud, Mark 16:9-20 may have been added.

Van, God used men (God inspired) to write the whole of the Bible. If the Bible is faulty (in presenting crucial facts) then why waste your time? I pointed out that Mark is backed up by Pentecost, of which you wish to ignore. If you hold on to what men say of proving the Bible, then you will have to add to your list, John 19:30.

Then, seeming unable to understand you ask how I can quote, probably meaning teach as doctrine from Matthew 28:19. First, as I said, Matthew 28:19 is not under a cloud, modern scholarship does not question that it is part of Matthew's Gospel. Second, because of this verse, we can teach Mark 16:15 as doctrine, because it is supported by an unchallenged parallel verse.

All I am able to say here is I believe the Word of God, and not man. Using the above of John, I'm sure you will say the same thing. It doesn't matter, for the doubters of Mark believe John. I see these scholars you follow make grave error. Mark is proved by Pentecost. Can the doubters of Mark prove by other Gospels if John is right? No other can confirm. So we strike portions of Mark, portions of John must also be struck.

You don't seem to understand the Gospels give four different views. Like the front view of a house does not reveal what is on the backside, nor on the sides. Put the Gospels together and you have the whole picture from all angles. .

As far as your traditional dispensationalism, I have no need to discuss it. My view differs, I am a progress dispensationist because of Galatians chapter 3, but that is a subject for another thread.

Noted without comment of enlightenment.

Now if you want to post something helpful for this thread, show me a command or teaching of Christ that (1) does not mirror some teaching in the OP, and (2) does not come only from a challenged section of scripture.

Number 1 is so simple. Off hand Damascus Road comes to mind.

Number 2. Learned, and unleaded men challenge His Word. Please present an issue you challenge.

You said there were other teachings in the other books, let see some with references.

Van; don't see in my post you answered where I used the phrase "other teachings in the other book? If let me know if I'm in error, and I'll try to respond.

 

[Van]

Hi Ituttut, did you see in the opening post where I paraphased the teaching. Lets take the Damascus Road. What is the teaching that we should follow? Listen to Jesus when He appears to us in a vision so bright it blinds us? OK

 

[Van]

Hi Ituttut, this is what I based my statement on:

"We should add one more to blend in with what is called the Great Commission. He said Go into all the World, Preach the Gospel to All. Those that are baptized will be saved. You can tell if they are saved for there will be signs of it. In My Name devils can be cast out, and they will speak with tongues; immune to serpents, drink poisons without ill effect, and heal the sick. Mark 16:15- 18.

I don't believe we can isolate one Gospel from another, for we only get part of the truth."

In the above you "add" to the list of Commands or Teachings of Christ, from the Gospel of Mark, saying we cannot isolate one Gospel from another for we only get part of the truth.

Based on that, I thought we were saying there were other teachings in other books. And no doubt there are. But I asked for a teaching from a non-bracketed part of scripture, or one that is supported by another verse in a non-bracketed section. I provided the example of Mark 16:15.

 

[ituttut]

Hi Ituttut, did you see in the opening post where I paraphased the teaching. Lets take the Damascus Road. What is the teaching that we should follow? Listen to Jesus when He appears to us in a vision so bright it blinds us? OK

OK if we look at scripture to see Jesus Christ, and Saul/Paul spoke to each other, which is not by a vision. You only see earthly blindness, and that is cloudy sight. Moses was chosen to give an earthly gospel, so he was not allowed to be blinded in eyesight, for Moses had earthly things to attend to. Not so with our Apostle, as he was blinded to earthly things in order to see beyond and above

We should e looking above the clouds. This is where the wish to enter into the unsearchable riches of Christ". Scripture says, "To me, who am less than the least of all saints, has this grace been given, that I should proclaim among the Gentiles the gospel of the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9. and should make all men see the new dispensation of that secret purpose, hidden from eternity in the God who founded the universe", Ephesians 3:8-9 (MNT).

 

[ituttut]

I provided the example of Mark 16:15.

To each his own.

 

[Cypress]

Hi Ron Wood,

"And of course you ignored the point that the Lord Jesus was making. He was showing how far from keeping the law we are and our inability to actually keep it. I ask you how many of those commands you have truly kept? If you are going to do what He says as you posit then you had better do exactly as He says without fail."

I completely disagree. Just because we cannot perfectly keep the Commands of Christ, does not support the idea that we are to strive to do so every day of our lives and we carry our cross and follow Him.

I don't have the numbers but Jesus told men to follow Him many times.....I think the opening post shows Christ gives us plenty of opportunity to follow......and it is a privilege to try and do so! This supports belief in Him and loving our neighbor as well.

 

[Van]

Yes, Cypress, the concept that after salvation (positional sanctification) we are not to carry out all that Christ commanded and abide in His teachings is a position I have not encountered.

Has anyone found a command or teaching applicable to our daily walk not represented in the OP? I find it surprising that Matthew hit them all. But then he was a bookkeeper of sorts.